Hello everyone,

This has been an informative and entertaining thread. Like many others, I have a great interest and passion for aviation. But when I was young, I made the mistake to not follow through on this dream. I'm 30 now and I've begun on digging into this passion of mine. (Is this what they call ‘bitten by aviation bug’ ?) I’ve read many book on avionics, weather patterns, accident case studies, and basically, anything relating to aviation. I buy every aviation magazines every month (pretty expensive in HK) and recently, been playing Microsoft Flight Simulator 2000 on my computer until 2 or 3 am which really p*sses off my wife. I believe myself to be an enthusiast and I’ve also applied to CX and KA (no reply yet).
But the point I’m trying to make is that many of us would also like to know how much airlines pay the pilots. I know that salary is a very sensitive issue but I stress that some of us are not THINKING of how much we can make but just to be informed of what the salary is like. It’s just like wondering how much Bill Gates make a month. I agree that the main focus should be concentrated on how to prepare ourselves for a career in aviation but knowing some side information on pay scales doesn’t hurt.
With all due respect, we look up to all you airline pilots to help (if you’re willing) guide us through the entrance to this hard-to-get-in industry. MNG was just asking a simple question with good intent regarding this industry. He shouldn’t be chewed up by so many of you. I don’t think about how much I can make nor do I wish to comment on the salary. But suppose I say I’d be willing to fly on $15,000 per month with CX or KA, I’d be chewed by many of you for not being professional and undermining or lowering the whole pay scale.

I thank all who understood that many of us wannabes are not only thinking of money, but to all others, I hope you can see things from our point of view.

PS To the 1-stripper who told us to ‘get a life’. This is a forum for everyone interested in aviation to exchange information and ideas. Unconstructive comments are unwelcome.

Dear wishtobepilot, I think you'd be pushing it to try to get into the cadet program aged 30. (I hope I don't get beaten up for saying this) As said by Kuboto, the sponsoring airline spends a lot of money on each cadet and they'd expect at least the possibility of you staying and working for them for a good few years. Though, I think your post should inspire all of us still young to not give up our aviation dreams! Although you are probably a little old for the cadet program, there is theoretically no reason why you couldn't go overseas, get a licence and start working in GA to get your hours up. But by the time you get your the necessary experience, I wouldn't count on being hired by a major airline, probably a regional though. I think your situation is a perfect example of what I'm trying to say throughout this topic. You want to pursue your dream but you also have a family to worry about. Therefore, your 'dream' is not the only thing you must consider.

Dear Mr. Nice Guy,

I'll admit what you say is true but I think the oldest cadet in CX was 32 (correct me if I'm wrong). However, I know age is an issue in my case. But hey, you don’t try, you don’t know. Hope is alive and someone eventually wins the lottery regardless of how slim the chances are.

But the truth is, aviation & flying is my passion. If, because of my age, I am only destined to fly regional or GA, I'll still be excited and happy. My hope and dream of flying for majors is that I’ll be able to combine my passion AND my career at the same time.

Cadet programs allows me get training while relieving me of the financial burden (not entirely but most of it). If this is not possible, then I will have to look for ways to self-finance my training elsewhere, possibly the States. Either way, I am determined to get the PPL, CPL, IR, etc. The latter is just a lot harder ‘cause of family and home mortgage payments (and in HK, the mortgage payments are pretty steep).

I’m a prime example to young people that if you’re serious about aviation, do it early. Don’t wait. I’m sure all pilots at CX or KA have worked their asses off and paid their dues. But it’s much better if it’s done early when you have less burden.

To sum up MNG's original question, if you want to get rich flying is not the way. Flying used to be a high paying career, the 70's & 80's were the golden days. Pan Am crews gets pay like brain surgeons and work only 45hr/mo, 7 days lay-over on Pacific flights!

With the current expansion in the airline industry, more jobs will be available but at the same time companies will want to control their bottom lines. As you can see, airlines like CX & KA will want to continue cutting their cost by driving the pilots salaries/benefits down. THIS FACT IS HERE TO STAY. Airline management will only answer to shareholders, welfare of their employees don't mean much now.

Having said all that, I can still tell you that being a pilot is a very rewarding career. You will still enjoy a comfortable living while being able to support your family. Remember the real money is to qualify for your PGA touring card!!

[This message has been edited by Girl Flying School (edited 10 May 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Girl Flying School (edited 10 May 2001).]

Smallwing,

I wish I was with Cathay or flying for any other airlines. No I applied twice, back in 96 and 00 , both times unsuccessful.
I am working at the moment at an airport at the moment, I have not applied ever since.

I know I fail the class one medical due to eyesight, but Its only with one eye, the other eye is more or less OK without glasses.

I might apply again but only if Peggy and Fifi are gone.

BTW, thanks for asking about me Smallwing, its very nice of you to.Regards
Ken

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I feel like we are all riding through a hurricane, but now the storm is calming. We are all beginning to understand each other a little better. Apologies on my part concerning $$. Won't touch it anymore, as previously mentioned.

Wish, sorry to say the oldest cadet I knew was 29 when he joined. Ex-FA and heard he got it tight with KB. Please refer to this as a rumor and nothing else.

There are still lots of talks concerning pushing back the retirement age on flight crew, especially in the US. To me, I see that as unfair when SOME ARE fit to fly, but in a sense, an opportunity for people to be upgraded. Perhaps their knowledge is more beneficial in the SIM deck, or perhaps as a check pilot w/o TOL status.

Eyesight is a big limitation to Chinese. Who doesn't need to wear glasses? This concern is also being looked at all over the world as EU has changed their standards, and US/Oz are ok with corrected vision. Hope it will be better with HKCAD in the near future.

Also for Wish, I buy US Flying magazine, I find it fun and very educational. I do not know if HK has it, but I can tell you you waste a lot of money if just buying FLIGHT INT'L. You can find info on different airlines right from the net.

Keep your spirits up, we will all get there one day. Hope CX decides to buy the A380 over the Stretch (crap), so we can see some bigger jets landing at CLK!

Cheers!

PS Has anyone joined the HKAC?? Just checking. Also they do a lot of radio flyers out in NT, hope I can do it too, if I have money and the time.

[This message has been edited by smallwing (edited 10 May 2001).]

Sorry guys, can someone just confirm this for me. Did someone state that entry to KA was for locals or those with PR? or was that just for the cadet scheme?
I've been on file with them for some time with no response.....patience is a virtue they say. I am considering going there to show my face sometime soon.
Thanks.

just to answer the previous poster's question, no you don't need PR status to apply for KA if it is direct entry you're talking about. Definitely YES for the cadet scheme though.

The eldest cadet was turning 30 when he was in ADL, he is now 34, S/O on A340.

I have seen S/O with age 38, so it is not too late to join at 30, but perhaps it is too late to start a new career if you already have one.

MNG: Don't have to worry about pay too much, it will have enough money for food. No matter how you look at it, if you successful, you will receive the least money anyway (local scheme!)

Thanks to Ben&Jerry for the reply.

Like I said, I know age is an issue in my case but flying is what I really want to do and if I can combine that with my day-to-day job, so much the better.

"You don't try, you don't know"

Ben&Jerry, I'm not really worrying about money.... i knew all along that it would be enough... The main reason I asked was to get a more exact idea of the compensation package.

Wishtobeapilot, I hope you can achieve your dream. Best of luck.

MNG: KA has the better package, period. As S/O can do the TO/Landing and start logging hrs under P1. There are alot of sectors which keep the brain functioning.

CX may have a higher paid, but average 3 yrs 8 months as S/O (no TO/Landing), 10 yrs as FO and who knows if there will be any Local Capt. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

"KA has a better pay package, period"
"CX has higher pay"

CX is higher paying? I'm just kind of lost here you see, people from all around have been telling me that KA pays more but now someone says CX pays more. Now let's not get into this $$$ argument again, but just which one pays more?

Perhaps a more important question than the previous one:
As a prospective local cadet pilot, which airline (KA or CX) would you join considering ALL factors?

Of course this is assuming you had a choice ("yeah right!") but just say if you could choose....

I think most of us here are on the same boat so I'd love to hear some choices.

[This message has been edited by Mr Nice guy (edited 11 May 2001).]

MNG, let me explain it to you.

As last that I have seen, CX cadets join with 33K rough, and because of 99 dispute, got a 3% raise per annum for 3 years (my figures are not totally correct). CX will definitely pay better than KA, also getting outport allowances and see more places, in which KA only has two overnight ports.

KA on the other hand, I do not know the amount they make as SO, but I hear they finish conversion training within 6 months and do sit right seat with a check pilot.

With CX, you will be riding in the back perhaps over 4 years as SO (the way things look right now). If you know about the ULH flights, they require 4 crew, and with having an SO, 2 FO and a captain, they save a bundle compare to the standart 2 Cap, and 2 FO.

B&J, how is it that the SO log P1 for right seat and not P2? I am a little confused with that? (CX SO log P2X, which in terms do not really account for anything anywhere else)

Hope this will help your understanding, and to the people that knew this already, please dismiss this post.

PS. I heard from that SO's gf that he was 29 when he joined. Maybe he is lying about his age?? HHahhaha, and he hasn't been upgraded to JFO, so been riding shotgun for 4 years.

Cheers

PPS. MNG, is that why you went for KA interview? Coz you heard it was more dough? Have you tried CX? Just curious.

[This message has been edited by smallwing (edited 11 May 2001).]

here we go again... no i didn't try KA for the money. The chance just came up and so I gave it my best shot.

Just wondering smallwing, which KA outports have overnights?

Smallwing: you are absolutely right, logging P2X for S/O in CX but for KA S/O because they are under training, they will log as P1U/T (under training) and subsequently P1U/S (under supervision) until they get command (P1).

For the Mr 29 S/O, his youngest classmate I heard was 18. Oh, u know her gf?!? :)

Since pilot retirement age is being regulated by law, and cannot be extended unlike lawyers or doctors whom they can worked until their deaths. Joining at younger age will give a bigger lump sum of pension. For example, based on a 7% return, joining at the age of 24 will have doubled the amount compare to 30.

MNG: Go for KA smaller Co, less politcs. Money different is minium. :)

B&J, my gut feeling agrees with you :)
One very attractive thing KA does offer is that they have already promoted many of the earlier cadets to captain rank. I'm not even sure if CX ever intends to do that...

CX will have a local captain soon. How soon.....when pigs fly.. Hahhaha.

Seriously, some of them are up there, but a lot of expats still waiting for command...within these next two years, I bet.