KA & CX salary comparisons
 

Wanted to see how the salaries between the 2 companies differ. Correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe a CX SO earns a basic salary of around HKD$30K/month right? Although I know KA doesn't have SOs, i was wondering how much their FOs earn? Or perhaps even a KA captain........

What is KA? Is it KE (Korean Air)?

Hi Mr Nice Guy,

How's the KA interviews going? I still had no reply, so I've dropped it. I blame it on the KA e-mail system!!!

BTW

P.s. I think KA ex-cadets join as S/O's.

BigTimeWannabe,

Long time no see on 'Fragrant Harbour'. I haven't heard anything from KA or CX also so tough luck I guess. How's it going in UK?

mr. nice guy , ithink they only take local's as F/O's and u may stand a chance to join them if u're their PR and speak their language .. i'm not quite sure but that's what i heard around town ... but we could share info if u like to ...

------------------

Thank you all (BigtimeWannabe, a330)

Chk: KA is "Hong Kong Dragon Airlines"

Bigtimewannabe: Look time to see! How have you been... sorry to hear you never heard from them... i'm going through their process at the moment(still haven't failed yet after a couple of stages!).. it's taking yonks though... Btw, KA cadets do join the company as SOs but after some initial training on the A320 become first officers (no long haul flights means no need for SOs)

a330: Yes I am a HK PR... not exactly local though..hehe.. :) But, i still meet all the requirements...

Cyaz.

Btw, anyone got actual salary figures or knows where I could find some for myself?

MNG, is that all you ever think about ...salaries, money etc. When I was just starting out, I was happy standin' by the airport fence sniffing Jet A. Worry about the money later, believe me you'll have 20 -30 years of it. Right now enjoy the aviation aspect of it.

KA Pilot to Chinese Landlord:
Can I live rent free this month please?

Chinese Landlord:.....Have you been standing at the CLK fence sniffing JetA or somefing!!
;)

hi don patrol, i really do enjoy the aviation aspect of it all. Before you go on to say I don't actually like flying and that I only want to fly for money, hear this, I love aviation. But let's face it, there'll come a time when most of us will be getting married, having kids, buying houses, buying cars so on..., and that's when all the $$$ will come in very handy!! Wouldn't you agree?

MNG,

I totally agree with Don Patrol. You are not even in the door yet, and all you can think of is $$$. There is a long way to go before you will even make it to FO, so, get your act together and start asking more questions about the selection process, technical aspects, etc, before worrying about money and life style. If you dont even make it to the final stage and get accepted to the Cadet program, there will be NO MONEy at all.

Wannabes like you should be showing more interest in aviation. Fair enough, you said that you "love Aviation". Have you done any flying on your own? Got a PPL? Done anything at all that will help your chances of getting in with KA?

Before you start thinking I am a racist or anything, let me tell you that I am a local pilot who has made it thru hard work and motivation. And only now, after 5 years, am I starting to think about the money.

DECU

Hi DECU,

Hi there. Nice to hear your opinions. Can I ask which airline you're in? Well I think it's good to plan ahead. I think a few people have slightly misunderstood my asking about salaries. I just basically want to know whether the career prospects in KA are as good as in CX? If I really end up flying for a living, I want to know that I'm flying for a company that will hold a bright future for me. I completely understand what DECU and Don Patrol are trying to say and respect your views but I hope you can see that I'm not that money minded!

Mr. Nice Guy,

Alright, fair enough, we all want a bit of stability in our lives and there is no harm in trying to plan your future.

However, I just wanna let you know, you will never be rich flying for an airline. You will earn a pretty good living, but nothing extravagant.

We are in this business because we love the job and we wanna get rewarded for it, but the rewards you get is nothign compared to doctors or lawyers, etc.

I wish you luck with your interviews with KA or CX, but please, try worrying about getting in the door before you start worrying about the money or any other issues. You must concentrate on getting hired first, and then getting through the training program, which i can assure you is not easy, and then after that, getting through the type rating course. And if you are still in the ball game after all this, which will take about 2 years, and get promoted to S/O, the basic salary will be $28000 per month. After about 1 year as an SO, and if you are still with it, you will be promoted to JFO, with a salary of about 38000 a month. 2 years as a JFO and then you get promoted to FO, with a salary of 55000 a month.

So, there you have it. Now that you know what the basic pay scales is for KA, try asking other questions which might help you get hired. And if you are really motivated, try gettign a head start on your career by taking a few flying lessons, get a part time job and sweep the hangar floors, wash airplanes etc. and stop worrying aobut the money or anything else until you are firmly in the door and have proven to KA that you are worth the money!Until you have paid your dues the only thing that should be on your mind is getting the job and surviving the training.

DECU

[This message has been edited by DECU (edited 08 May 2001).]

Well said DECU.

One thing to add: Stay OUT of the politics till you're IN AND established.

Decu Well said!!
I think MNG you should try to do some flying, DECU said try to do a PPL or even try gliding which is a good basic intro to flying.

Yes there does come a time when everyone will thinking of getting married etc. but I guess it all depends on which you feel is more important getting the dream job you always have wished for and worked hard for or thinking about the luxuries that you want when you get paid the $$$ at the end of every month. I hope all goes well for all you guys trying to get into KA or CX, who really do want to have this dream job but those who are in it for the money, I have no time for. I have seen too many ppl who say "I had nothing better to do" Or " I saw the add in the SCMP so I applied for the the fun of it." MNG I hope all goes well. Woeey about getting in first. As the money is the least of your worries believe me as if you get in on the course you have 13-14 months of hard work and stress.

Regards
SS

MNG, I didn't want to take a crack, but I have to. It is people like you that makes the flight deck scary. I can understand CX pilots not happy with management, as they have been there for a while and things were taken away from these pilots.

As for you, if you really thinking about money, you should go into the banking or law business. In aviation, we need someone we can depend on, with our lives. I would not want to be caught dead in the flight deck with you, while you are wondering how much you make that month.

Please don't take this too harsh, for our safety and yours, think about your future in aviation.

PS> As you say you are going through their selection, do realize that they do read PPRUNE and do have an idea who these people are!

Cheers.

Hello again!

Supersandwich: If only I could afford some flying lessons...

Smallwing: Point taken.

I think I understand the general views here. Even without being told by anyone here, I know that the 2 years of initial training WILL be hard and also the working afterwards won't be easy either and that I might not even get in. But look at it this way, I don't want to risk putting in all this effort and hardwork only to realise in the future that both my family and I will have to 'struggle' with daily expenses. That said, given the salary scales that DECU has posted, I don't believe I'll have a problem. So in ending this post, I just want to say: YES I want to become a pilot because I just want to fly, but NO I will not be a pilot if doing it means my family and I will have to struggle with expenses. So, I hope everyone can see that I'm not actually greedy, merely trying to plan ahead.

Most of us do not think of family until it becomes a situation. I am not that old and not ready to settle down until I get into a flight deck of an airline. Any airline.

Anyone can tell you how a lot of people came up in rankings. Paid for their own flying, WHILE holding a job. Do small things to build time, ie...tow banners, gliders and stuff. Getting a CFI to teach people to fly just for the hours, roughing it with small regionals (turboprops, loud sweaty cramped cockpits), bush flying and so on.

That is determination. Can any of us afford being a pilot? NO. But do we try? Hell yeah, coz that is what we want to do.

As mentioned by Sandwich, I think you really need to get into a cockpit for a familiarization flight, won't cost a lot, and see if you like it. If these airlines only pay 15K a month, would you do it? Or you would find something else?

Be what you REALLY wanna be, I would hope you don't feel like you entered the wrong field when you are aboard.

Take this msg like advice. Never ever mention money unless you are qualified.

Best Wishes

Nor could I afford lessons, a few years back but then I still manage to get some. Where there is a will there is a way. I guess you dont want to fly that badly after all??? ;)

No one said that becoming a pilot was going to be easy. How much hardwork have you put in??? I am sure some ppl have put in lots more than you, all around the world but still have no joy. I think you should consider yourself lucky to even get an interview. Your 'family' present/future should understand that they may have to struggle a little in order for your dream come true. Otherwise what is the point in having a dream? Is your dream to have an ordinary job that can support your family-to-be and to have a car a house??? Or is Your dream to have a job which you have always wanted since childhood and maybe think about house later, family way later and a car, a maybe ( if you are gonna live in HK) ??? As I have none of the above!!! as I cant afford it. I hope with a bit of saving here and there I can. It all come down to sacrafice!! How much are you willing to???

Regards!

PS, since you have been thinking about family so much, you need to sit down a watch about 10 hours of plane crash events, read more about it and then ask yourself, "What if that happened to me? Can I hack it? What would happen to my 'family' then??"

It gets scary as you see literally people dying in front of your eyes. What would YOU do if you were flying the Mandarin MD-11 2 years ago?

Do you think about these things?? Maybe you should now.

Cheers

Smallwing: Interesting point you put forward, "Would I work for an airline if the job only paid 15K a month".... very honestly NO. I think if I were to answer yes, then I would be one stupid person. There are perhaps many young or shortsighted people that would say yes, but if the job really only paid 15K a month, then I'm sure they will regret it when the time comes for them to support a wife and kids. Smallwing, I think you are thinking in a much too idealistic world, because in the real world, you can't really just 'do' something just because you like to do it. In my opinion, one needs to consider the various other factors involved both in the present and in the future. Let me ask you, would you do it for 15K a month? Let's say you were starting out to become a pilot, would you accept this low pay? I think for many who say they really want to become pilots they say this for 2 primary reasons:

1) They really do like flying;
2) They also see the 'possible' financial rewards in the future.

The 2 reasons above are definitely my reasons. To be really honest, I would rather be stuck with a job that I don't like as much than get a job that I do love doing but which pays me barely enough to get by. So I know you're asking yourself again, "how much does this guy like flying?". Well I'll tell you this, if I didn't like flying, why wouldn't I just get another job which:

1) Perhaps pays more;
2) Is more stable (in terms of flying everwhere all the time);
3) Is perhaps easier to get (afterall, becoming a pilot is no easy thing);
4) As mentioned, isn't as potentially dangerous as flying.

So you see, money isn't the main thing I consider when saying I want to become a pilot, it's just one of the things I do consider.



[This message has been edited by Mr Nice guy (edited 09 May 2001).]

huh? I thought it was a 'Free World'??

O MNG, where are you from?? Did you go to Uni??? The reason is in the UK where BTW is, there are gliding clubs etc. affordable prices and if you are/were in University, then there might have been something like a Gliding Club or something like Air Cadets which would be even more affordable. Just a thought. Oh BTW Dont give up!

Anyhows Goodluck!

Regards!
SS

A very very interesting and informative topic so far, it reminds me when I was in the process of selection but I never once gave thought to HK$.

If you are a truly aviation enthusiast, your reason in being a pilot is your passion of flying then you will automatically be motivated, have that drive, determination, commitment, enthusiasm, will not allow any problems to prevent you from and dedication in achieving your goals or objectives in order to be a pilot.

I tried very hard in doing so , persuading at the interviews to Peggy and FiFi but It did not work.

If the rumour is true that the people at Adelaide are not doing so well, then I question the selection procedure and the motivation for people training there.

I do agree there are many different reasons for people applying, many of which have been stated, glamour ?, money.

Mr Nice Guy, Good Luck and the very best to you. I hope you make it.

A very very interesting and informative topic so far, it reminds me when I was in the process of selection but I never once gave thought to HK$.

If you are a truly aviation enthusiast, your reason in being a pilot is your passion of flying then you will automatically be motivated, have that drive, determination, commitment, enthusiasm, will not allow any problems to prevent you from and dedication in achieving your goals or objectives in order to be a pilot.

I tried very hard in doing so , persuading at the interviews to Peggy and FiFi but It did not work.

If the rumour is true that the people at Adelaide are not doing so well, then I question the selection procedure and the motivation for people training there.

I do agree there are many different reasons for people applying, many of which have been stated, glamour ?, money.

Mr Nice Guy, Good Luck and the very best to you.

Just to say thanks to all you who put in feedback to this post. From some of the posts, I can see some probable causes of the rumoured poor performances in ADL. I'm not sure if the selection process has anything to do with it, but I think that management is placing too much emphasis on how smart and intelligent their recruits are, and not enough on how enthusiastic their recruits are. We are all born differently and admittedly, some are smarter than others. Though I really do think that hardwork inspired by enthusiasm and interest in aviation can, and ultimately will, make up for it. I don't mean to hire really dumb people, but management should really place more emphasis on interest. This is what I think, please feel free to disagree!!!!!!

Come on guys, MNG is merely trying to gain some more background details about being a pilot. And we are here to help one another, not to try and stamp each other out.

I know that MNG REALLY wants to become a pilot because, like many of us, has been rejected by KA but is still persevering.

I say we try and give him a little encouragement!

SuperSandwich: Don't worry I won't give up that easily, and thanks for the encouragement!!! But unfortunately I can't join my Uni's RAF squadron, because I wear glasses!!! I did try, but that's the military for you!!!

Cheers guys

BTW

SuperSandwich: can you post your e-mail address on your profile please!

Cheers

BTW

MNG, I have to intrude again and add my one sense..Heheheh

People in the US DO fly for less than 15k a month. When they start off in the regionals, they make only 1000usd, you do the math.

Why?? Because they want to be there, and they want the hours. You are talking about jumping straight into the right seat of a A-320/1 with KA or B744/A340 SO for CX. What more can a person want? Big planes, big engines, and high mach speed. You get perks, travel benefits (please no remarks from CX staff)and entitled to a bunch of paid leave.

WOULD YOU start off on a small turboprop, or even just a piston twin, carry cargo? I think not as YOU seem to think not worth it.

I personally don't care what cockpit I am in, from a two seater to the A380, but I will be happy anywhere.

So the situation is, is 15K do little and for some people to take jobs like that or paid less stupid? I sure hope not, but I do give them credit AND honor that they do try.

Like I said before, when you are counting your eggs before you get them, does not make the world turn. I am not a Professional Pilot yet, but with my last breath, if that is what will take, I will get there.

Money doesn't rule the world, it only lubes it up and let is spin better. You are better off buying a lottery ticket.

By the way, HOW MUCH aviation knowledge do you have? DO YOU know anything about these airlines? DO YOU read updating information? DO YOU try to learn about flying, perhaps buy a textbook? I am sure these things do consume time and a little bit of money, but buddy, it is well worth.

IF, you do not have any information, AND you make down south, I don't know if you are ready to absorb all that information. It is not 2 years, but 14 months.

Regards.

MNG:Smallwing, I think you are thinking in a much too idealistic world, because in the real world, you can't really just 'do' something just because you like to do it.

ps. Doing what we like to do is what makes this world goes round. I would not like to be stuck in something coz I have to do it. Would you MNG?
Oh, BTW, hear JAR standards are lifting up on eyesight requirements. Is your eyesight worse than -5 diopters? If not, you can consider doing LASIK and fly in Europe. BUT, I only heard this and cannot confirm as of yet.
Cheers, and Good Luck!

[This message has been edited by smallwing (edited 09 May 2001).]

[This message has been edited by smallwing (edited 09 May 2001).]

Smallwing, I think you have very successfully misunderstood me once again! :) To clear things up, if I had to START in General Aviation, small airacraft etc... and would be paid 15K a month for doing that, that's no problem. This is because I know I will have the chance for career progression in the future and that I won't be stuck on 15K/month for the rest of my life. I think you interpreted me as saying: "I will never ever accept a 15K job at any stage of my flying career"... that is not what I was trying to say.

One more small correction to make, I have not been rejected by KA yet! (BTW) Or perhaps BigTimeWannabe is just trying to predict the future!!

MNG, I am not surprised that you haven't been selected for the CX cadet course. Personally, if I were rating you, I would say

ENTHUSIASM = 3
GREED = 9

What you need to get in is

ENTHUSIASM = 9+
GREED = Money? I get PAID to do this?

Consider that CX are willing to poney up over HK$1,000,000 for ADL, have you barely productive for over 3 years as a very green S/O while paying you HK$25K a month ++, (that's another HK$1,000,000) and then put you into the right seat of at least an A330, the LAST thing you (as a cadet wannabe) should be asking is "Btw, anyone got actual salary figures or knows where I could find some for myself".

Get real. Either come back with an ATPL and 2500 hours or shut up and take it with a smile on your face. CX owes you NOTHING.

I do read many aviation books,Trevor Thom PPL series, got Martin Willing's book, Syd's Pirates and Beyond Lion Rock.

Kubota, I agree with your rating on enthusiasm but I beleive it is not sufficient, I showed countless enthusiasm yet I failed. I do know my eyeisht is one of some problems.

Kubota, of course they don't, no one owes me anything. But you see, it's not that I'm trying to bargain to get a better pay package, i'm merely wanting to know what kind of benefits I can expect to receive should I be selected and graduate. Just look at it like this, if the figures I requested look "too" bad, then i won't even bother applying. As another example, I think everyone who goes into an interview (for any job) would at least have a fair idea of what they expect to be paid if they are employed. Any prospective cadet should not be an exception. To be totally frank, I'm kind of surprised at the amount of negative comments I'm getting just because I requested some info on how much an airline pays it's pilots. And since some of you are so against me asking, what did you actually expect me to do? Let's say I do finish the course, am I suppose to find out how much I get paid just before I sign the contract? I mean, wouldn't it be wise to know how much you'll end up getting paid before you put in all the effort. As I mentioned before, money is NOT the most important thing but it is one of the areas which I, and probably everyone else, should take into consideration when choosing a career path.

OK, point taken, but all the details are available from Peggy or T.P...you know who they are, right?

Sorry MNG, I thought you have been unsuccessful previously. I wasn't refering to this time round.

Sorry, got confused.

Good luck with the rest of your assesment. Have you got as far as flight grading yet?

BTW

......and Smallwing, thanks for the info. Checked out the CAA (UK) website, and the class one requirement is already -5 dioptres. Maybe I'll start saving up for both LASIK and flying. That is one tall order!!!!!

Cheers

BTW

BTW, sorry to rain on your parade, but CX does NOT accept lasik treatment in initial applicants (s/o's or cadets).

Guys, go get a life.

Hi Mr Nice guy

Just want to know when you applied for KA cadet scheme were you living overseas? And if you were did they pay for your travel expences? How old are you if you don't mind my asking? Do you have a degree?

Thanking you in advance.

Chunks

MNG, before I begin, all the best towards your flight grading. Hope you get what you want, as I know millions of people do not get what they want everyday.

Not to be rude in bringing this point up is that, DA1 & 2 went down WITHOUT knowing how much they were making, BUT it was the prestige and love for flying that drove them. I am not saying that you do not show love in flying but you DO show that if the price is not right, you will not do it. You mentioned that yourself in the reply on this page. But I will try not to mention this anymore and as like everyone else, Best Wishes.

Sigma, are you with CX? I have seen your name popping throughout PPRUNE for the past couple of years. If not, how is your progress?

BTW, sorry to forget to mention that CX do not hire anyone without good eyesight. I just wanted you to know that there are chances for you to get a Class One and if you build your hours, can still enter direct. Can you leave an email add, I may be able to share more with you.

Guys, lets be frank. Who does not want to sit in the front seat, coming in for approach? Or be the ONE that flies the approach. I sure wish I can. All I have to say for those that are not there yet, never give up. There will be ups and downs but the struggle only makes the victory more sweeter!

Have a nice day.

Smallwing, my e-mail is correct on the pprune database. You can get it if you just click on my profile or the e-mail icon above this message(for future reference).

Here it is anyway: [email protected]

Hope to hear from you

BTW

thanks for understanding kubota. Smallwing, that's right if the price is not right than I won't do it. On the other hand, if I knew for certain that I'd be staying single all my life(lets hope this won't happen), I would take the 15K/month job.... as with all the above people, best wishes to everyone.

To Chunks: They DO NOT pay for your travel expenses for any of the cadet selections. Now, I think you're REALLY expecting too much!! Correct me if i'm wrong pplz, but they don't even pay for your travel even for the 1st SO interviews but they do for the subsequent ones right? But definitely not the cadet one chunks. You can email me if you want to.

Cheers.