Move back to HKG? Brilliant. Increase costs to the company by increasing their base pay from Aussi levels to HKG levels, increase the salary expense from the current 50% reduction to 20%, pay them housing, pay them education, pay for the move back of household items.

Why the hell should the Aussi aircrew be paid so much less than the HKG crew? They are already saving the company a lot of money (lower salaries, no housing, no education).

Why? Because mature cheddar cheese costs $14 a half kilo. Interestingly, the Aussie base is infinitely expensive at present. Getting paid for nothing is way more expensive than getting paid for something. Simple maths.

crap, we could be doing some flying easily. The company stand us down because they can......I suppose you think you’re productive and making money for the company do you.....

And they will for a long time to come......making the cockpit a happier place for many long suffering FO and SO. QUOTE=ACMS;10843939]crap, we could be doing some flying easily. The company stand us down because they can......I suppose you think you’re productive and making money for the company do you.....[/QUOTE]

Not intending to add to the anxieties on the base, but the current cost argument in favour of bases is way overdone.

No new hire since mid 2008 has received expat housing. Over 2/3 of HK based pilots receive HKPA only. The cost differential between HK and the bases has been strongly converging for 12 years now, and is probably quite negligible.

ACMS, for a MEL based guy (or girl) to ‘be doing some flying’ requires a MEL-HKG sector to start, of which there are very few. And the aircraft has to get from HKG to MEL first. Hence why HK crew are doing it. And most of us HKG crew are doing little, if any flying either.

Veruka salt.

Your logic is a bit flawed;
You are forgetting that only relatively senior people get a base allocation and it is exactly those pilots who cost the most in terms of housing and other allowances.
So for every new base position filled, there is one fewer b-scale pilot in Hong Kong.

You would be correct if you would compare a new hire with a based pilot, but a new hire can’t get a base.

What makes anyone think that those benefits a B scaler had will exist in the coming months? Do you really think Cx is going to miss this opportunity to make wholesale changes to the policies. Notice I said policies not contracts.

They have slowly been positioning themselves for these changes. Taking away the unions ability to facilitate negotiations by canceling the GFBA and the recognition agreement. They can unilaterally do whatever they wish and there isn’t a darn thing you and I are going to do about it.

so when it comes to costs I don’t think there will be much difference between a B scaler and a C scaler in the coming days. The costs savings to be on a base may soon be negligable.

Some bases have in recent months become way cheaper percentage wise than the Hong Kong base has.
For instance, London base is on half salary as far as cx is concerned.
Even if you put a Hong Kong based pilot on 50 percent pay cut, cx only really saves 20-30 percent if you consider education allowance and housing still go on uncut.

If there’s a new contract in Hong Kong, I’m sure the bases won’t be far behind with similar cuts.

So I estimate bases will stay relevant for the time being, if anything it will probably be more relevant.

For all those guys in here salivating at the prospect the bases will be cut and they will slide up the ASL consider this,
Oz based crew will be on standown for 6 months minimum. Including lost superannuation, plus what the Australian Govt contribute in jobkeeper Cx are only paying us about 35% ( 65% pay cut ) of our normal monthly income.....35%......and that 35% obviously DOESN'T include any expat benefits.....which you guys get on top.........so just imagine for a minute how much cheaper we are than a HK crew member to have hanging around waiting. Yes some of you in HK are fortunate to be flying once a month....... but you certainly ain’t close to being productive.

It basically costs them very little to have experienced crews waiting on the books for an upturn which will come, this is a marathon not a sprint.

Maybe some of you wish you were on a base now?

So can we please just cutout the bs and learn to help each other.......in fighting does not help our situation.

We are indeed lucky we work for Cathay Pacific under these circumstances.......There’s a lot of not so lucky Pilots in the World right now.

For the love of god, can you stop whining for just one day?

ahhhhhhhh I’m responding to silly immature thoughtless posts above me specifically regarding bases, including from you mate, so how’s about you stop posting cheap petty rubbish.........

The first immature post directed at the based Pilots was post #60 and I didn’t respond until post #65.

Back up the truck and if you don’t want people to say something then don’t post crap.

SIMPLE.

I don't think people were being as vindictive as you seem to think. No one is hoping that you get cut, and we all know as does management if they close a base then those pilots return to Hong Kong. The possibility of base closures is something that you need to be prepared for and the unions gaming for, if you decide you don't want to return to Hong Kong as is your contractual and legal right then unfortunately there's not much that can be done! if they did close bases the only reason I can think of to do so would be a shot in the dark by management that those crew wouldn't want to return to Hong Kong and thus it would save them some mandatory redundancies, other than that I see no reason to close them. All will become clear by December.

All of us in Hong Kong need to remember that it's one seniority list and one company basing doesn't affect LIFO, it seems a few of the newer COs18 hires don't get that probably because of their lack of experience in the industry.

We all need to start planning and we all need to be incredibly familiar with our conditions of service/contracts.

Our C’s of S are somewhat moot if they rip up the playbook as every airline around the world has been doing. The exception so far being CX, bizarrely enough, and NAM carriers, due to legal constraints. And I wouldn’t put it past the North American carriers acting dramatically once the period of financial relief is over. And who’s going to stop them ? The collective might of our unions ? Good luck.
No one that I know takes any pleasure ( vicariously or otherwise) in what is happening to those on the bases.
Those of you on the Oz base are being hoist on your own petards, namely your allegedly superior EBA. An agreement that in better times served you well, as most based Australians that I flew with were at great pains to point out. Sadly it would appear to have some downsides to it.
None of us are immune. And a company run like ours must have war gamed this out to a conclusion.
Just wish they’d get on with it.

agreed in most part, except that it has nothing to do with ‘cos18’ lack of experience in the industry, LIFO is not in their contract.

It is in the majority of Cos18 recipients contracts. Section 12 of COs18; titled redundancy states redundancies will be executed in LIFO order. COs18 was amended by management on May 16 2020 removing the redundancy section from COS18, management confirmed this amendment only applies to those who joined on or after May 16 2020.

Now you might ask why remove a redundancy section from a contract at a time when it became increasingly more likely redundancies would be made...

I suspect that the company will argue that those COS18 pilots who do NOT have the LIFO in their contracts are not subject to dismissal BEFORE more senior pilots who do have such a clause, thereby allowing them to retain the most junior (cheapest) members at the expense of more senior members. It's an interesting quandary....all to be revealed in the next few weeks no doubt.

No, the initial reason was that they wanted to be able to fire some of the cos18 extendees before others, depending on fleet/needs.
If they come up with a plan, that is.
Believe it or not, they were still offering extensions not so long ago (maybe they still are?) and these guys kept their place on the seniority list.

Now, what you say is not necessarily untrue. They'll probably try to screw us if they can.

I read today, experts in Australia are preparing for a 25% PER ANNUM increase in Suicides and a 15% PER ANNUM increase in diagnosed anxiety and depression for the next five years.
I imagine in our Pilot community the numbers will be at least that.
Don't expect ANYTHING in the way of support from your Hong Kong employer. Stop bashing on the based guys, they are not your enemy, Pick up the phone or your laptop & check on your colleagues, many of them are standing by while their careers, lives and relationships fall to pieces.
Aviators used to be known for their strength, determination, unity, professionalism & friendship. Let's all try to claw a bit of that back eh !

A few have asked and the Company have said "cannot"...

No need for "have"