End of year Restructure
 

There are several potential restructuring strategies and tricks to cut costs further to save the airline even after the gov bailout...

1) All people change to newer COS (E.g. 99 -> 08, 08->18, 18->20)
2) New COS 20 with lower base and hourly rate, maintain target hours (monthly/yearly) [Almost to the max anyway, just to minimise productivity pay]
3) Suspend pilot recruitment for SO or cadet (FO recruitment may continue due to resignation/retirement)
4) Possible redundancies if merge with UO (Certain demotions for each rank, may temporarily impose no-pay leave for new join SO [period: 2 months or more], last step: Last-in-first-out)
5) Delay contract signing for new joiner
6) Some training captains will drop to line captain UFN
7) Downsizing KA's route and fleet

Ahhh, you make it so complicated! Why not make it more simple and all pilots just work for nothing?

.......F&@king idiot

Indeed. Halfw@t.

if you don’t agree at least debate him but just being insulting doesn’t strengthen your argument.
I can easily see the company trying to impose a new contract and trimming down of KA.
Those expectations are being managed already in the red corner by judicious leaks.
Our own senior management are equally “pessimistic” and would be delighted to attempt the same.

Exactly. Notice it's the OP's first post. Expectation Management leak. Management 101, and CX has been doing it for years.

You’d have to be crazy to not think something will happen. For 5 months the airline has operated at somewhere between 5-20% normal capacity. All other airlines around the world have laid off significant numbers of staff and are expecting this crisis to continue well into 2021. What makes us think Hong Kong is any different?

Can any of us predict exactly what will come, probably not. I don’t think anyone saw the government contributing a 5 billion dollar bailout. I’m sure if that didn’t go through we’d already have experienced whatever cuts are to come.

until then I’m still being paid and better off than most of my colleagues at other airlines.

🙄if I had a dollar for every time there has been a ‘management leak’ in the last few months, I would not need to fly again...NOT ONE of These ‘apparent’ leaks has proved even remotely true.

Yes I came to pprune to listen to well-connected authorities like "unitedcx" whose speculation was consistently and wildly inaccurate. Should have stuck with my own sources from the HK Club. Below was from April. Leaks at the time, about a week before the latest fuel hedge fiasco became known, said the situation hopeless without a government bail out and that the "they'd" got it wrong again with fuel.

Only murmurs I'm hearing now are jobs must be saved for locals.

item 6, what a pisser that would be for the 'volunteers'!

now that the government is involved in the group, China will become the priority( not to mention the fact that they are the highest traveling nation in the world) ka is not going anywhere, They own 85 percent of the Chinese routes, with the Neo’s arriving they will fit the position perfectly for the lower capacity forecast, not necessarily in China, but many other group destinations. A new top dog introduced, followed by an advert for flight deck crew placed on the 18th June 2020 must make ka one of the only ‘hiring’ airlines in the world. Cx has been trying to merge ka since they bought the airline, if it’s not demerit points, it’s another excuse. If anything, hke is dead in the water, low cost airlines all over the world are folding everyday...holiday travel, which is what they exist for is not going to be back to ‘normal’ for a long time to come...a new cos across the board doesn’t make sense, after all it would unify the pilot body. Cost saving will come with the introduction of ‘minor’changes’ to current COS, policy’s that cost a lot of money will be changed, Early retirement offered for the top ranks, voluntary redundancy worst case scenario. At the end of the day, it all depends on which way this thing turns next, I don’t believe anyone in the driving seat knows exactly what is to come . One thing is for sure, the Hong Kong pilot pool has done a lot better than those in the Middle East, be grateful for that.

as you said, personal opinion.

I believe the NEOs are going into storage?

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
if anything is going into storage it’s the 777’s at this rate.

HKE is taking delivery of a NEO this month and another in the next.

Dos not sound like an airline dead in the water.

thats great👍 The apparent restructure is only due 4th quarter. Guess only time will tell....

There will be lots (777and330) going into storage soon. They can’t be left in HK much longer as they’re rotting away.

Not sure what your contract says, but mine is very clear. I expect it to be followed. If it’s not, I expect my union to enforce the contract, in court if necessary.

Obviously, these cuts should have been made 4-5 months ago, but here CX is paying know nothing “pilots” for literally nothing. I know they are cheap, but they are not free. You have to be pretty cynical to think this is an industrial play against expats while the airline fights to survive.

Loyalty to non-essential staff is actually a betrayal of the airline as a whole in times like these. Apparently, CX has other plans, or maybe they don’t and are a truly rudderless ship.

not sure how that article leads to last in first out, airlines all over the world send aircraft to dry environments for storage, from a maintenance perspective makes complete sense. It will be interesting to see which fleets loose most airframes, as mentioned previously, my bet is 777 and 330’s to go first.

Pretty simple maths 1981, parked airplanes equals excess pilots. Pilots aren’t geniuses, but do try to keep up mate!!!

im not disagreeing with the excess pilot story ‘mate’( a term I really don’t like throwing around, especially as I doubt you and I would fall into that category) the fact that they are going into ‘storage’, and as you quit correctly stated, pilots are not geniuses, so, in case you cannot keep up, straight off Wikipedia is defined as:

”

storage

noun

1. the action or method of storing something for future use.”

The excess pilot pool will no doubt exist, it could be temporary, possibly permanent, who knows, one thing is for certain, they won’t deal with that until they have a better idea. As for LIFO, no point kicking a dead horse, that point has been discussed. Ask your EK/QR/BA ‘mates’ how that is working out for them...

Keep dreaming MATE! Good luck with your juniority. Maybe CX will give you an extra few bars just for being cheap. In the end, that’s all you’ve got going for you. Right?

Well, at BA we are using LIFO (+)
for redundancies.

3Greens, that's not what BALPA is saying, it would be very surprising if all the junior crew were Skippers and F/Os on the 744, since that's where cuts are coming from.

Still amazes me at CX that the guys who are on RA 55 are so desperate to go to 65 that they can interpret from the massive oversupply of pilots we currently have and suggest the company might not want those on COS99 to retire at 55 but stay on longer instead.

Yes, the RA55 vs RA65 gamble from 2009 is looking rather dicey at the moment. However, that is changing the subject. Redundancies are done from the bottom, period. That is irrespective of CoS99, 08, or based CA, CBA, or EA. This pipe dream that it will look like QR or EK is just that. I’m not sure what is going on at BA or VS, except that it seems completely irrelevant to CX.

Sorry to say, there is now way redundancies will come from the bottom. CX was bailed out by the HKG Govt and they made it clear the company restructures as it sees fit. The Govt wants it's investment back so redundancies will be in the most efficient means possible. Please don't start saying but we have a contract, but we have a contract. It's worthless in a court in Hong Kong in the current climate.

You’re absolutely correct cxorcist. BA and VS are irrelevant to CX, in those companies the 747 pilots are going. In CX they are staying, whatever their seniority.

For now, yes. Until the next cargo downturn...

I’m on the 747 but I’m not so arrogant to think that our current Teflon status will last.

You’re correct that our contracts are quite clear regarding redundancy and are legally enforceable. So take it to the next step. How will you ensure your contract is enforced or how will you seek redress if the company uses another clause to reduce excessive staff other than the redundancy clause?

Obviously an unfair dismissal claim is the recourse for anyone who believes they’ve been unfairly dismissed. What does this mean practically?

In the event of a successful judicial process in accordance with the Employment Ordinance the courts will enforce compensation less than that which the company will probably already have paid. Under the EO there is no requirement for a company to reinstate an unfairly dismissed employee.

So yes, our contract will necessitate management being rather “creative” to achieve their objectives and will keep their lawyers in a job for the foreseeable future. But it won’t save anyone here from joining the world wide scrap heap of unemployed pilots.

I firmly believe in our contract and the ability to seek redress in accordance with Hong Kong law. But I also respect that doesn’t amount to much.

Good luck to all. It’s going to get painful for everyone.

With plenty of QF,BA,VS 747 pilots out of work, sounds like a prime time to reinvent the ASL saga with substantially reduced contracts/bases etc

Locals jobs are important to the government.

Not to mention enshrined as a result of the government bail out. HKG locals, including expat PR holders 'shall' be kept on before non-PR holders, regardless of seniority, is my understanding.

Minor point there’s no unfair dismissal in Hong Kong. (no constructive dismissal either).
The only valid grounds for a “complaint” are those arising from unlawful dismissal. I think that’s what you meant.

Thanks Wobbly.
I think the correct EO term is “wrongful termination of contract”. Unfortunately the penalties for the company are minuscule compared to the savings that could be made.

Knowing your contract without knowing the legislation that make the contract worth anything is only seeing half the picture.

If CX have yet to be revealed plans to make pilots redundant based on LIFO, then why are they still conducting SO initial training and upgrades?

Base training on the 777 earlier this week. The mind boggles

Also advertising for DEFO for Dragon and Air Hong Kong.
Madness, but CX know they are hiring them on as the cheapest pilots on COS18.

If CX starts busting contracts, legal or illegal, enforceable or not, the moral at CX will sink to depths previously unknown. The disdain between pilots and management will be so toxic that the airline may never recover.

Through pure misfortune, CX is enjoying most pilots being onside at the moment as we all seek to survive this virus. It’s one thing to ask for SLS and get union approved pay concessions for idled, based pax pilots. It is something very different to furlough out of seniority against every contract in CX/KA, except the “amendable” POS18.

This airline will quite literally crash and burn if it tries to fly the operation solely with pilots on local contracts. They aren’t there YET, and they know it. Letting go of guys at 55 on CoS99 is fair enough, but out of seniority redundancies are a radical path that not even CX is brave enough to try on.

CX has an opportunity. They are at a fork in the road and can go several different directions. At the moment, it appears there is no leadership making any decisions. Perhaps that is wrong, and they just haven’t moved yet. I would like to think that the plan for expensive expats is to move them onto bases and keep mostly local contracts in Hong Kong, but since when has CX ever done anything that actually makes sense?

Cargo
 

I heard the market for Rubber Dog Sh*t was "drying" up :-)

Important ??
 

With China's new security law being rammed down HK's throat and the Corporate exodus beginning, I would think that "the rule of Law" , criminal, Corporate or EMPLOYMENT would be paramount to HK !!
But don't use the USA as an example, lawlessness reigns supreme...

...thanks to the Democrats and the insane ultra leftists that have hijacked every aspect of their party.

My guess the company will: