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Originally Posted by BCFPilot
(Post 10098465)
I've been following all the current CX topics and am amazed by the current situation (as employees experience it) at Cathay.
I've also been invited to HK for the assessment for SO. Working at Cathay Pacific and living in HK has always seemed amazing to me and my goal in aviation is to fly long haul eventually. Recently I've passed an assessment for a short haul jet carrier in Europe, incl type rating and benefits as insurance, housing allowance during training etc. I'm now at an age of beginning 30's and have one year commercial experience on a turboprop, so about 800hr TT. I live in Europe, so joining the short haul carrier in Europe will allow me to be back at home in 2 hours through their network with staff travel. If I pass the assessment at CX, it's going to be a tough decision for me. I can understand that (also due to my age) joining the short haul carrier and building jet hours as an FO would be a better career option. I just can't stop thinking about flying long haul at Cathay, even though the transition to FO may be 5 - 6 years as my goal in aviation eventually is to fly long haul. I would appreciate it if anybody could share some experience with me. CX is not the place to be joining as an S/O right now. |
That’s most enlightening Trafalgar, if one was to believe your “prancing carrot”, with his assorted social media vanity and self-promotion, Cathay Pacific is nothing short of aviation Nirvana. Truly the number one employer of choice for any up and coming aspiring aviator (although apparently that particular individual’s second choice, as the number one was somewhat underwhelmed by his efforts in their selection process).
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Originally Posted by BCFPilot
(Post 10098465)
I've been following all the current CX topics and am amazed by the current situation (as employees experience it) at Cathay.
I've also been invited to HK for the assessment for SO. Working at Cathay Pacific and living in HK has always seemed amazing to me and my goal in aviation is to fly long haul eventually. Recently I've passed an assessment for a short haul jet carrier in Europe, incl type rating and benefits as insurance, housing allowance during training etc. I'm now at an age of beginning 30's and have one year commercial experience on a turboprop, so about 800hr TT. I live in Europe, so joining the short haul carrier in Europe will allow me to be back at home in 2 hours through their network with staff travel. If I pass the assessment at CX, it's going to be a tough decision for me. I can understand that (also due to my age) joining the short haul carrier and building jet hours as an FO would be a better career option. I just can't stop thinking about flying long haul at Cathay, even though the transition to FO may be 5 - 6 years as my goal in aviation eventually is to fly long haul. I would appreciate it if anybody could share some experience with me. You will regret coming to CX, especially as an SO. Being an SO is an accountant’s version of a pilot with no purpose other than to warm a seat as cheaply as possible. Little will be expected of you, and you will get very little in return. The salary is a barely livable wage in HK. Don’t do the conversion, see the low tax rate and be fooled. You will be stuck in HK wondering how and why... And worst of all, you will have been warned and will hate yourself for not listening. |
The Prancing Carrot is no better than one of "Lenin's Useful Idiots" (look up the phrase). It quite disgusts me that there are people who would knowingly take part in the propaganda efforts of the same management that is actively attempting to cut THEIR pay and benefits. Defies belief. There is no fixing stupid that is that deep and that wide. :mad:
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my goal in aviation eventually is to fly long haul. Do you understand that your layover in that "exotic long haul location" is going to be about 24 hours long, in an airport hotel? Given your age, there is a reasonable chance that ALL of your long-haul career will be as an FO, working on your body-clock night time. |
Stay in your home country and be a real pilot! Our S/O's here now think that flying is just about managing and that you don't need flying skills anymore and that shows when they get into the right seat. If you like flying and want to be an actual pilot stay where you are and eventually you will end up flying long haul for a career airline.
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The SAA pilots are welcome, at the bottom of the seniority list, on the same terms and conditions as offered to every other recently hired SO. Otherwise, there will be a :mad: storm the likes of which this management could never realise in their worst nightmares. Try it....
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Traf are you not aware that it has already been confirmed they will be on the same conditions
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I think this might be a smoke screen and the SAA contractors may end up in the CX Group at Air Hong Hong flying 747 and A300?
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I doubt it, CX is getting desperate for crew
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Originally Posted by Trafalgar
(Post 10099281)
The SAA pilots are welcome, at the bottom of the seniority list, on the same terms and conditions as offered to every other recently hired SO. Otherwise, there will be a :mad: storm the likes of which this management could never realise in their worst nightmares. Try it....
Regardless, they’ll eventually betray the SAA guys too because that’s what CX does. They only see numbers, not people. Sure, they talk a good game because they know how it should be, but they just can’t help themselves. They’re like lumberjacks who cut down all the trees without replanting and then wonder what happened to the forest. Idiots!!! |
Originally Posted by TurningFinalRWY36
(Post 10099292)
Traf are you not aware that it has already been confirmed they will be on the same conditions
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Originally Posted by Trafalgar
(Post 10099387)
Well, we'll see won't we. I hope that is the case, but i've been hearing from sources that there is a 'deal' in the works. A 20+ year history of seeing how duplicitous and dishonest our management are keeps me skeptical. :rolleyes:
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CX, I can't possibly see how they can pay a signing bonus. They were nearly out of business back in December, as it was only keeping the 13th month payment from the pilots that helped them keep the doors open into 2018. So no, I am sure the signing bonus isn't possible. After all, they still seem to think that they can suggest cutting housing and our provident fund, so of course they don't have the money to pay a signing bonus to new pilots. In fact, they are cutting our medical coverage, so no, they can't possibly have money available to pay signing bonuses. :rolleyes:
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Originally Posted by Trafalgar
(Post 10098817)
You will sit as an SO for 5-6 years, logging NO time. You will have effectively crippled your career just when you had the chance to actually make yourself into an airline pilot. Further, you will be stuck living like a rat in a barely livable space (300 sq/ft) paying about $3000 usd /mo for that. Don't even get me started on the non-existent staff travel, appalling medical, joke of a retirement. Add to that the fact that you will work for the worst airline management in the industry, one that belittles you, lies to you, cheats you, steals from you and basically ensures that every day you are here you will regret. Other than that, come on in, the water's lovely! Take the job close to home, actually FLY airplanes and be grateful you dodged the bullet. (oh, and as for flying long-haul, that particular desire will be crushed out of you very quickly at CX, with the appalling rosters and minimum time layovers, crappy hotels and inadequate allowances. You will very quickly be too fatigued to care).
It is still hard to believe and to imagine for such a world recognized airline, but perhaps I just don't want to see it. As a current low timer (800 hr TT) flying long haul at Cathay seems like the ultimate dream come true, even if a transition takes 5 years to FO. It's still going to be a tough decision for me, but again I appreciate all the feedback, advice and warnings. Chances are now most likely I will pursue my job offer in Europe and fly short haul for the next years. Perhaps, I can join another long haul airline as FO after those years. |
Originally Posted by BCFPilot
(Post 10100025)
As a current low timer (800 hr TT) flying long haul at Cathay seems like the ultimate dream come true, even if a transition takes 5 years to FO This attitude will destroy your career. |
There is absolutely no doubt, none, that like everyone else at this sh*thole the SAA imports will get screwed over, the baseball bat, the pineapple, the full works.
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So how does the life of a CX SO look like?
I'm curious to a typical working week/month, regarding for example roster, layover times, destinations, typical (****ty) hotels. I would appreciate any feedback regarding this. |
Sometimes I despair (actually, most of the time...:ugh:). It's not about the rosters (crap), layover time (eat/sleep), destinations (doesn't matter when all you really see is your hotel bed), hotels (crap), etc. What REALLY matters is you will cripple your career (no flying for probably 6 years!), and live like a peasant in the worlds most expensive city. If that sounds good to you, welcome aboard. :ok:
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34 Yrs to command A380 at QF
31 Yrs to command 777 at Air NZ 32 Yrs to command 777 at BA Since we’re all going on about cost of an apartment in Central in Hong Kong, why is it I can’t afford 500 sq/ft next to Hyde Park on my BA new joiner pay? What about new joiner pay at QF vs living smack beside the Sydney Harbour Bridge. Just find it amusing that you pick the most expensive location to have to live in Hong Kong while it’s actually got f*cking expensive to live in the equivalent to Central anywhere else. |
Is there a cheaper countryside somewhere near HK that I can live?
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Haha, yeah, there’s always beautiful Yuen Long!
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34 years to command a QF A380? That's an interesting lie.
QF invented Jetstar which then took all expansion for 12 years, and their idealogical bent was to deny any QF pilots the opportunity to transfer for upgrades, etc. Current projections, due to the missing cadre the lost decade caused and upcoming retirements are three years average S/O (with some pilots getting 737 F/O within a few weeks of joining). A new joiner can probably expect 6 years as a 737 F/O before becoming a widebody F/O and then narrowbody command a few years later. 737 captains can educate their normally aspirated (no mask required) children and afford a 7000 sq ft joint within an hour of their base. Note that's seven thousand square feet. Seniority is honoured, and change of fleets, even within rank, is not limited except voluntary downbidding is discretionary. Sure it'll take longer for a widebody command...maybe 20 years give or take. That's the nature of legacy carriers with a large domestic network. QF will probably be locked into a cyclical hiring pattern now that they have set the stage that way. My estimates are only true for people being hired in the next two years. Be guided accordingly:/ |
The usual B/S.
20 yrs to a 380 command? Bumped into a 380 skipper in Melbourne airport, joined QF aged 23 got lhs 380 at 57. You do the maths. So I need to live an hour from the airport to get 7000 sq ft? Then we agree that we’re not living next to the Sydney Harbour Bridge. If you’re an hour away then you’re getting as far from the city as possible. I don’t mind the grass is greener talk but can we at least keep it believable. |
MorningCoffee. Trust a Swire management lackey to dig himself a hole that deep. Why don't you hunker down in your cubicle and start designing flight attendants trousers? Either that or you can run and get Anna a cup of tea. :D
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MC, you and the rest of your Swire incompetents seem caught up in this 'wide body command' thing. Let me educate you a bit: the reality of the job (especially here at CX) is that working for this company is so miserable, it DOESN'T MATTER WHAT AIRCRAFT WE FLY. I would rather be a 787 Captain back in Europe being home at most nights, living in a nice home in the country, going to the pub on weekends and generally living a 'real' life (and seeing my wife happy and the kids not getting serious illnesses). Not scraping by here in HK, living in a shoebox, being abused by management every single week of the year and generally wasting away life trying to satisfy the likes of people like you. Needless to say, there is a MUCH better life to be had nearly anywhere else in this industry either than here. You and your like have destroyed the pilot profession in HK, and have managed to destroy the airline as well. :D
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Originally Posted by morningcoffee
(Post 10102691)
The usual B/S.
20 yrs to a 380 command? Bumped into a 380 skipper in Melbourne airport, joined QF aged 23 got lhs 380 at 57. You do the maths. So I need to live an hour from the airport to get 7000 sq ft? Then we agree that we’re not living next to the Sydney Harbour Bridge. If you’re an hour away then you’re getting as far from the city as possible. I don’t mind the grass is greener talk but can we at least keep it believable. The Sydney Harbour Bridge is just about an hour away from the airport, but no, I live near one of the four other bases. Downtown living is great when you are young, but not optimum for child rearing. I fly the 330. I am away from my home approximately 200 hours every month. You? |
Australopithecus. Thanks for taking the time to counter the propaganda that our management are attempting to manipulate our younger pilots with. MorningCoffee being a serial offender. Happy flying, Traf.
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BA 320 command has been achieved recently in 18 months.
BA 380 23 years. One hour drive from LHR puts you somewhere a bit more liveable than Yuen Long. |
Cheers Traf. The only difference between our two carriers is mine has to deal with slightly stronger laws and much stronger public opinion. Same stupid management tricks otherwise.
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Originally Posted by Dragon Pacific
(Post 10102748)
BA 320 command has been achieved recently in 18 months.
BA 380 23 years. One hour drive from LHR puts you somewhere a bit more liveable than Yuen Long. |
What does say a fourth yr Capt on a 330 make? At my carrier a 4th yr capt 737 80 hrs month makes about what he'd make on a 330, although flying many more sectors
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Originally Posted by Australopithecus
(Post 10102757)
What does say a fourth yr Capt on a 330 make? At my carrier a 4th yr capt 737 80 hrs month makes about what he'd make on a 330, although flying many more sectors
Of course all this needs to be tempered by the cost of living in Hong Kong. That needs to be tempered by lower tax rate, potential for 13th month, and any housing and education allowances. Housing and education are astronomically priced. |
The above is after 15 years in the Company, but that number is going up rapidly as I write.
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Oh, I forgot to mention the air pollution in HK is awful and the Company healthcare plan is garbage. Sickness is rampant from the population density and pollution.
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MorningCoffee, 32 years to command at BA is a total nonsense. I'm on the 777 at BA and command on type is about 20 years, yes still a long time but nothing like what you say. Command on an A320 probably 10 years.
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morningcoffee is drinking the morning KoolAid again.
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The big difference is freedom of choice. Want an early command on an unpopular fleet or prefer to wait in the right seat on a LH fleet? In BA & QF you can do this. In CX there’s no such thing as choice. Join on the 747 & fly a freighter roster for the rest of your life. And bases are over so it’s HK for your whole career now. HK’s good fun but for a few years but a lifetime in a shoebox breathing noxious fumes just doesn’t compare to life and a job in the real world.
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Originally Posted by cxorcist
(Post 10102767)
About 131k hkd (16800 usd) per month. Add 10% to that for a full 84 credit hours (70+ hours block time). Then add 15.5% for retirement.
Of course all this needs to be tempered by the cost of living in Hong Kong. That needs to be tempered by lower tax rate, potential for 13th month, and any housing and education allowances. Housing and education are astronomically priced. Housing is silly money in Syd and MEL, but not HK crazy. More western world average in PER, BNE or ADL. We pay tax here...we mostly get good returns on that what with the pop density and clean air, water amd crops etc. A 737 pilot makes a similar monthly pay to his or her contemporaries' on the 330 or 787. There is no mandatory retirement age here...many pilots opt for a few years on the 737 after 65. 737 pilots get annual bonuses of perhaps an additional two-three weeks pay. |
There is no doubt QF offers more and better career options than CX. Sure, you pay more tax, but that’s part of living in a civilized, 1st world country, which Hong Kong definitely is not. Hong Kong is more like 2nd world slipping backwards into the 3rd world that is mainland China.
At QF, you’ll also have a proper rostering system and the ability to bid between fleets, all based on seniority, not at Company whim born of spite and cost control. In reality, one cannot really compare the two airlines because QF is a proper airline with a proper union and CX is a dinasour, nothing more than a relic of the past. CX doesn’t even hire real pilots anymore because so few are willing to come on the totally inadequate package, and we all know commuting at CX is completely impossible with unworkable rosters and ridiculous and expensive staff travel. In short, CX has turned into the laughing stock of the industry. Any reputation to the contrary is just a blast from the past that in no way represents the current reality. |
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