DEFO back at CX
 

So it's official. On the A330 and B747 only.

I have seen an internal letter floating around the last day or so, looks official, I don't dare post it here but I'm sure you will be able to if you ask around

Yep. It is official. DEFO on Airbus and 747. HK based. S/O's can apply if qualified.
20 S/Os from the Airbus going for 20 sectors LFUS at KA.

Yep I have read the letter...leaked by the company. Poor S/Os are going to have to wait a bit longer for upgrades as DEFO s pile into HK

On full expat housing?

Full expat housing? Surely NOT!

This is the mother of all f### ups. Promotions delayed by the awesome training ban that, almost 2 years later, was only supposed to last a few months. Now the unsurprising and predictable result will be DEFO and some serious harm to any junior crews career progression. The icing on the cake was you got to pay for it to be enforced with your Union subs.

Joined a year ago, but actually I'm not to worried about DEFO. It is what it is, nothing I can do as I don't meet the requirements. Even with a few 1000 hours, the largest thing I had before here was a King Air. By the time commands come it'll be senority based anyway.

The fact they'll be on a far better package for their entire career, and I'll never get close to it, is what annoys me.

So now we will have SOs who will be without an upgrade for potentially 5 years and they have given up a modest pay increase now for nothing? Will the older boys in the company stand up for the SOs after many voted NO on advice they received from captains and first officers

Rwy36

Of course not!! That has never happened in the history of the CX. Problem is there are guys who will vote no regardless of what the offer is because there are absolutely zero consequences for them. It's all the junior guys who have to do the heavy lifting. From this point on I think the AOA should waive Union fees for all junior guys if CC/TB is to continue.

Keep calm and compliant on
 

This is unremarkable. Most pilots joined this airline as DEFOs. CX have done it during times of expansion. Last DEFO was probably back in 2008. This would have happened with or without the Training Ban.

As for joining on expat terms.... I doubt it. In fact, if they do, I will run down "the street" naked with a feather stuck up my a......

Liam,

I don't think that's right that most joined as DEFO, but in any case that would definitely not be happening now if it wasn't for the training ban.

2/3 of pilots are SO recruits

Regardless of AOA actions, the company was ALWAYS going to go down the DEFO route eventually. The simple demographic necessity of it was screaming out to the company for the past several years. They are just using this as the time to announce it in hopes that we will turn on ourselves in the process.

Instead of blaming the AOA, realise that this is yet another example of the company's lack of sincerity. They would rather punch you in the nose yet again than find an equitable and fair settlement. They can't help themselves.

The DEFO move will NOT help them in the long run. It is not cost effective and on top of that, the cost in pilot resentment and guerilla action will render the working of the operation even less viable. Stay strong and united, THAT is what scares the company the most. It is also instructive to many of you as to why there are better employers and careers out there.

They are following down their predictable road of 'face saving', a road that will lead them nowhere.

And yet, Trafalgar, YOU will train them.

Well done.

Best thing that could happen to us is DEFO on expat terms.

I hope it will definitely put an end to 250h HKPA recruits.

If anything, the hkaoa should put a vote for a recruitment ban until new hires get full expat conditions.
Best thing that could happen to our LEP as well.

What makes you think they would offer SOs/FOs who would not have been eligible for direct entry full expat?

Fair question. But isn't that what the SO position is for?

Not asking for FO upgrades and pay ahead of those more qualified, but in 3-5 years when all the recent new hires are FOs how are they any different, especially given most have been expat hires?

SOs on expat terms used to be the norm too.

There's always been 3 entry levels to CX. You're in contract compliance. I'd suggest reading it.
1. DEFO - xpat conditions
2. DESO - xpat conditions
3. Cadet SO - local conditions

Any HKG based DEFO has to be given xpat conditons. Anyone who knows cx knows there won't be DEFO's. There will be cadet SO's who are offered "rapid promotions". Just like the rapid promotion captains 10 years ago. (and watch that get repeated at both CX and KA as failure rates of partially trained pilots become farcial)

BTW, we all signed contracts allowing for DEFO's and for all but 6 years of CX's 70 year history they have done so. Most pilots at Cx have enjoyed the experience of having pilots join over the top of them. At least now you still keep your seniority number.
Anyone who voted NO to the TA thinking the company responsible for the 49ers was going to fight by the Queensberry Rules shouldn't be allowed in a control seat.