The only change since 2008 is they've shoehorned every new hire into the last category as a cadet, regardless of prior experience. There are even military fast jet guys with combat tours under their belt labeled 'cadets'.

So there only option then will be to offer C scale DEFO, Im sure that will deter plenty of applicants with the necessary experience considering they are most likely already employed at various airlines

Correct. Although, legacy carriers aside, it's still far preferable to most positions in the EU.

There are several SOs that qualify and or have usa green cards.... Might be interesting.

Is it legal to offer expat terms now ?

20 years ago AOA members were training ASL DEC's and DEFO's. I'm guessing nothing will change.

Potential applicants should have a good look around before looking at CX unless they are after the free type rating - joining now as a DEFO the time to command at CX would be longer than most carriers in emerging markets (CX only got about 40% captains).

Why would you? KA down the road offers commands in less than two years and then there are the ME3.

CX will only attract pilots who can't get into any of the others - either because they got rejected or they don't meet their type/hour requirements (ie. biz jet pilots, single engine fast jet and heavy turbo prop).

Defo
 

The training ban continues. I for one am resigning from training. As to all you other TCs you should do the same.
Gentlemen time to stand up and make a statement.

Xwindldg, I joined Cx 19 yrs ago (direct entry FO) so have been now just on 1year without the housing allowance as I was not rolled over. In the latest vote I indicated NO so as to try and get the HKPA up. Please tell me how you are doing the "heavy lifting" when as a result of the TA not going thru I am short some 40k/month for supporting an increase to your terms of employment?
Frankly I am tired of your bleating. New recruits knew the package yet signed anyway and now our total renumeration is being held hostage as a result of your actions. The AOA is fighting for a better deal for ALL and your latest retort is for all subs to be wavered for S/O's. You must be so impressed with yourself when you look in the mirror. Moronic.

What Rice Power said.:ok::ok:

Yup, what Rice Power said.

Agree with Rice Power

if you guys think anna wasnt going to do this regardless really have no idea how mngmt at cx work.

the latest part a amendment would have been in cad for approval well before the vote was finished. they are playing you guys like a toy

So Xwind, management treat you with contempt & your colleagues think you're a moronic jerk. This is the exact response you seem to attract every time you open your ignorant, selfish, prepubescent & supremely arrogant sandwich hole. Continue as planned fella.

As written earlier, with the existing T&C's CX will struggle to attract few if any [quality] DEFO's who see CX as a 1st tier employer. Those with the runs on the board know they deserve better. CX will be / is at the very best a distant target for any experienced FO seeking career satisfaction when considering industrial peace of mind, profession integrity & long term financial security. Those 3 items simply do not exist for any new joiner at CX.

The longest time to Cmd in the ME is approx. max 7 years with 2.5 years or less frequently happening, depending on expansion plans at the time, etc. And the remuneration packages offers full housing (company provided, rent-to-buy or buy & the allowance pays the mortgage easily), education allowance, health insurance & provident fund. Yearly bonuses in recent times have been as much as 13 weeks as well as 15%+ pay increases.

Then there's the contract world both in Asia & Europe where FO's earn a tax free income from $10k - $16k USD per month on commuting contracts or live in their home country. Or legacy carriers in the US & the UK who are aggressively hiring (United, BA, etc, etc....).

China, you stole my rant!

I'll add that in the current industrial climate, plus poor pass travel, an outdated command assessment process, a high command failure rate, poor command training and hostile management, you'd be nuts to join this place EVER AGAIN.

Does anyone know how many very experienced FOs, previos large jet captains, 13 years+ seniority, are assessed as unsuitable??? They use that system against their own best and most experienced crews, it's insane really. Yet they talk about safety and the need for experience. They talk out of both sides of their mouths and it sickens me honestly.

This place is so dysfuntional now that anyone that joins, remember slashers arms, will, if they have'nt already, see what a poor career choice this place is.

Those that read this that are on the outside, please know what you'll be getting yourselves into. Don't believe anything they try to sell you, they lie all the time. You WILL be harassed, threatened and beat over the head here. And wait until you see what training is like here and expose your career to our third floor. You have no idea who these people are, what they've done in the past and what they continue to do. They promoted a guy to Chief Pilot training who slept with another pilots wife and then threatended that pilot with termination if he did anything about it.

I have been succesful in talking pilots out of ever coming here.

Oh, and good luck ever getting on a flight to/fr home with our new priority system. Oh and wait to you experience rostering. It is something to behold, our crew control. You will get a roster and you will get some requests but you may never fly them. Go ahead and try to call in sick or unfit. Just go have a read of my thread "Rostering after the TA".

This place is also thee unhealthiest choice one can make.

SOs will be the hardest hit out of this. Loss of backpay, loss of HKPA increase, Delayed upgrade times and therefore lost income from JFO pay. With many struggling to provide for families this must be looked at properly

What's your point??

Everyone warned you about CX management's treatment of their pilots & contracts. Books have been written - literally. Everyone told you about the salary & cost of living. YOU failed to listen. YOU knew better. Now YOU have to live with the decisions YOU made.

YOU having to receive EXACTLY what you begged for is a far cry from what the real pilots have to bear with due your ignorance & severe / dangerous lack of experience both inside & outside of the cockpit.

Fellow Pilots: Please don't give CX management the satisfaction of seeing us turn against ourselves. There was a MAJORITY vote cast to reject the TA. This majority consists of pilots from all levels of the seniority list. It was rejected because it was INADEQUATE. If the company choose to show their true, narcissistic colors, then accept that they are at least doing you the favour of allowing you to make a career choice based on truth, and not fantasy. There would be NO career here under the TA. That is why the company was desperate to get it through. Now, instead of taking the high road and reengaging in negotiations to fix the areas that were not acceptable, they choose to dump on the very pilot group who probably mostly voted yes, and who are the most in need of improvements. Just take a moment to reflect on what that says about the 'sincerity' and morals of our management. We MUST stick together and press home with our unity and resolve. They ARE on their back foot, and this is their immature, juvenile and venal response. Don't let them split us now, we have too much invested in the past 19 months to give up now. THEY are the desperate ones, not us. Regardless, keep your integrity, honour and ethics intact. There ARE other airlines in the world, and the fact is that most of us would be better off being at them (time to command/housing/pay/bonus's at the M3 as example). Let this play out, but don't assist the enemy.

Spoke yesterday to a friend who is very senior in BA. They didn't take a single CX pilot in the latest recruitment trawl in HKG (as far as he knew).

Chinabeached,

They will be FLOODED with applications from experienced guys if/when DEFO is offered.