Staff Travel Change
 

Jan 1st 2017 - KA will have same boarding priority as CX Staff on CX flights.

So it begins...the first in the list of changes to be introduced.

Yep and vicky-verka on KA's ever expanding network which will be well received by regional CX commuters and travelers but not so by some in KA.

Now that Contract Compliance has been averted I imagine the message will be keep expanding KA? Despite a 50% command failure rate it has the training capacity in place to keep growing. And we can circle and fly visual approaches too if that helps?

But it's ok. CX also get PRI25 on KA now. Finally!

I was so sick of getting bumped off the Guilin flight. :hmm:
And CX get the KA travel fund too. Well, that wasn't in the Update but I'm sure that's just an oversight.

Right??? :ugh:

Your cabin crew commuters are often furious getting bumped by KA staff to Penang and elsewhere. The tantrums spectacular and perhaps the original driver of this policy with Cathay-Dragon taking over more regional routes.

Great news! I knew I joined the wrong airline! I'll finally be able to commute to Zhengzhou now! The wife will be over the moon!

Seriously, I hope CX skippers look after their own with JS requests when possible, not that they'll be around much longer.

So, which senior CX staff have places in Phuket...?

And they didn't attack the COS
Hang on
:mad:

In a moment of magnanimity, while feeling the spirit of the combined CX group airlines, I was motivated to acknowledge all my outstanding JS requests. Twenty seven CX staff, only one from KA.

There are plenty of CX staff who will also benefit from this change.

Zhengzhou? Guilin? Seriously? The same juvenile arguments can be made for Colombo...Chennai...the entire Middle East....

As a group, everyone benefits from this change. Airline versus airline, Cathay staff benefit more than Dragon as due to greater resident seniority. ie. CX will bump KA more than KA will bump CX staff.

The only people that lose from this are the commuters. If you only care about ONE city. If you couldn't give a flying fark about travel to the other 89 then this hurts you. The Cathay commuters to PER & SYD, the Dragon commuters to HKT & PEN etc. So given that group-wide, commuters number in the hundreds out of a global headcount that exceeds 20,000 this is a no brainer. Personally, I look forward to having a far better chance of getting uplifted for the next bucks night in HKT, golf trip to CNX or squeezing onto the last flight out of HND that gets me back in time for duty without tea and biccies.

And for the record One Bar Wonder, I issue jumpseats to aircrew first come first served, independent of airline. If you're family of the operating crew or a close friend you'll be pushed up and if you've let my JS request whither on the vine or played games you'll be pushed down (reciprocity).

MM

Very Magnanimouse of you. Having checked with a couple of Dragon mates, the culture there is (quite logically and reasonably IMO) to favour their own - I will reciprocate.

"...everyone benefits from this change..."

Yeah, right. And I suppose RA 65 will reduce time to Commands??

36 months!
 

And to think it only took 36 months to implement from when we got it in writing! Quite brilliant!! So it takes 1080 days to add 500 pilots to the system..

That's one name added to a data base every two days. Obviously a user friendly data entry system employed by our IT elite. Do we really believe the excrement spewing forth again?

Now boys and girls , don't be a single day late with your tech quiz or learners world (enter pathetic course title here), or we will stand you down. Having issues this threat, if you could give us three years to add your name to a data base we would greatly appreciate it, as you will only really be considered as part of the group once we change the paint on the planes you fly, (why?) and as we know there is nothing you can do about it anyway.. Be guided accordingly as they say.

So you'll now be handing back the large travel allowance you still get at KA because you don't have staff travel internationally.........

Or spending it on commuting to Sydney. I'm guessing there'll be about a 300% increase in KA commuters.

Or we just roll it into our pay like you guys VOTED to do? Not sure what you are getting at there. Which of your COS items will you be happy to give up because KA don't get them too? Quite an odd position to take industrially.

As for Sydney commuters, a 300% increase in your estimates might see the numbers rocket up to a dozen guys. We only get the same priority, that's it.

Have you ever seen a KA roster? If you do see one, look at it with commuting in mind, you will feel a lot better about yourself, and your fear of getting bumped by a KA commuter. I promise.

KA commuters?? You're joking aren't you. Our rosters don't allow commuting, just quick visits. We fly short haul remember. 8 gs a month.

As for the travel fund??!! That's why for the same grade CX gets 20% higher basic wage than KA. Yours is included in your wage, ours is an add on.

I've got 15 jump seat requests over the next few days. 12 are Cx staff. And as per the mouse milker they are first come first serve.

Anotherday

How spiteful. And what will you be giving up when you bump KA staff off regional routes? Nothing !

Commuting to Australia on a KA roster will seriously damage your health. Most know this.



swh

Shouldn't you be working a G day or something instead of laying into a KA pilots.

swh, I think you'll find it wasn't one of our own that created the boating debacle but rather one of our less highly regarded HR managers looking for another opportunity to poke a stick where it shouldn't have been poked.

Please dont shoot the messenger
 

Please can we not let this descend into a slanging match.
I can understand how CX crews must feel and particulalry so as PEN has come over to us with the Malaysian staff trying to get home. With the current industrial climate the timing is less than ideal.
KA people please dont wind up our opposite numbers. CX guys bear with us we too are just trying to get through the day in one piece.
For my part I will always do my best to get staff on the jump seat particulalry our colleagues from CX who are always a pleasure to have onboard.

I would think somewhat unlikely that KA crew will start commuting. The impact will more be that KA crews' families are now going to be higher priority when visiting grandma etc. down in OZ. But given how full the flights are anyway, marginal impact on making commuting tougher than it already is

cathay dragon's crew don't even have time to travel outside their roster!

http://st.depositphotos.com/1647366/...l---Dragon.jpg

sounds like a certain fleet in CX..

SWH, before the total destruction of your credibility please refrain from the above BS.

Ask your KA friends about last night..... but with your sweeping allegations I doubt you have any!

swh, It's a great shame that you seem insistent on trying to drive yet another wedge between pilot groups with your hostility. In the interest of your more sane colleagues I'm not biting, nor do I take offence. Your interpretation is too childish to be genuinely offended. I'm sorry that you feel KA are such a demanding and selfish crowd. I can only assure you that things aren't quite as simplistic as that. As for the boating issue, I regret that you're misinformed.

Nothing happened last night, this has been put in print to KA staff a long time ago, It was never communicated to CX staff officially until today.

Of course everyone in CX all misinformed, we were never told.

Just to set the record straight, when exactly did people in KA get told about PRI 25 travel (a year ago plus ?) When did people in CX get told ? (today)

I would actually say it is more accurate to say that we were not informed or consulted at all. Unlike the people at KA and the DPA. Your DO only sent out and email only a few weeks ago confirming again it will take effect in Jan 2016 before the DPA EGM in Feb. He described it as an "important matter", while people above are all trying to downplay it. Are you saying he is also misinformed ?

So you think it totally fair that a a CN that has been in KA for 2 years can bump a FO that has been in CX for 12 years ? Then you have people above claiming CX guys are paid 20% more ???

As for the boat issue, so you are suggesting that is the fault of CX pilots as well ?

It was a CX non-flying employee passing judgement on a KA pilot.

It's ok swh, no need to justify anything with this swarm of KA posts. I am sure they will fight for common seniority list soon for a chance to come across as well. It will also be interesting to see what the greatest union in CX has to say with this demoralizing change....the FAU and not AOA ofcourse.

I'm not going to race SWH to the bottom so can someone else explain how a group employee of 2 years can bump another group employee of 12 years off a flight if it's a DOJ based system.

AOA knew of this matter years ago .......

cyrex

No interest in your outfit too many weirdos. And I like to circle and fly manually. I can't recall your outbursts when all the other KA employees went over years ago either.

Staff Travel
 

Hi CX Guys,

You as much as KA Crews really don't have any control over the future direction of our companies! You may not realise this but this is the truth... Pilot's think they are in control, however we really have no control of name changes or future directions of the company. We drive the aeroplanes. If you seriously think what you say about another companies crew within your group of companies is beneficial keep it up!!!!!!! When you are finished and wakeup and smell the roses and have a 100% unified crew within the group of companies well then and only then will you have a strong workforce.................

This should have been the first thing the 2 pilot groups should have achieved 10 years ago......... But **** unions with poor leadership only drives the direction of the selfish with the subsequent position you are now complaining about.

United you rule, divide you loose!
:ugh::ugh::ugh::mad::mad::mad:

How about we get the option to dump our KA priority 25 and never have anyone from KA get on a CX flight ahead of us.
Haven't ever used KA in the past and don't want to now.
We just got f*cked.

CN PRI11 J
FO PRI11 YW

And a Swire employee can bump both with an even lower DOJ.

Staff Travel
 

Next time you have a look at the bottom line.... A company with 41 aircraft makes more profit than the big brother! That has many more aircraft and have muscled into KA operating territory!

swh

Funnily I haven't noted your mordant outburst about Swire employees nor our KA office staff who switched over prior. It does seem puerile though, that when it's the KA pilots your protests begin.

Annual FOC's? Expats ( not C scale ) are having their travel fund partially garnished over that one.

Thanks for the laughs, how much money does CX funnel into associated companies ? All those "KA office staff who switched over" do what exactly for the KA subsidiary ? Who pays for them ? Who pays for the aircraft ?

Who exactly is paying the 100 million for the re-branding of KA ?

The "office staff" are now employed by CX, not KA, they are entitled to CX benifits. Swire employees and directors etc have always had higher priority, there is no change. They also have higher priority on KA.

If you all joined the bottom of the ASL today as CX employees at the same time, no one would complain. Done the same way as any new joiner on the same day at CX, by lottery, totally random order. Thats what the KA freighter pilots did.

"travel fund partially garnished":ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

Why did the Aoa not know about this, as the dpa had this information available for a long time?
I thought they were working closely together?

This thread is a F@çk!ng disgrace.

Please re-read captaindbusdriver's post

swh

Just wondering. Did the KA office staff transferred to CX go to the bottom of the list?

Oasis

AOA has known about from near to day one.

flyhardmo

How is this post a F*(&KING Disgrace? You guys whined your way into getting the same travel priority as us while all we can do is watch and witness you cutting the line in boarding priority. You guys stole from our cos and you call us disgrace? It would of been marginally more acceptable if all your travelling priority dates start from the date CX took over KA and not your KA DOJ which is totally irrelevant anyway.

swh

Wasn't the question. Did KA office staff have their DOJ honored when they were transferred to CX? Just wondering and thought you may know.

January 1990
 

In January 1990 Cathay Pacific and Swire Group acquired a majority stake in Dragonair. That's s long time ago.

Yes they did and the pilots did as well, differance is they are CX employees. They are on CX employment terms.

The office staff and pilots however did not carry over rank or promotion opportunities, they were added to the CX pool. The pilots joined the bottom of the ASL in random order like any other pilot. Most of them are around 2000 on the seniority list, none are currently eligible for a passenger command, probably not before 2020 at the earliest.

I know the KA captains would throw their FOs under a bus to jump over as there is no downside for their rank. The FOs however would be looking at 12 years additional FO time which is a significant loss of forward earnings.

Using your logic every CX employee should get full Swire benefits since 1948. No CX employee thinks that is their right.