Official...Direct Entry Left Seat
 

Couldn't believe what I heard....

First batch of direct entry commanders are due to arrive late Feb/early Mar.

Initial batch is overflow from MAS and some arrangement CX made with DJ when they started doing training a few months back.

5hit man!! Here it is!

:mad::mad::mad:

Well which is it?.....bit of a difference between "ITS OFFICIAL..DIRECT ENTRY LEFT SEAT", and "couldn't believe what I heard"

Come on...I know this is a rumour network, but at least make a vague attempt of substantiating them if you are going to make a post

i believe DE left seat.



They do what they want, when they want....contract means NADA.

Just wait for commands out of seniority to fill the bases, (immigration issues being the excuse/reason), without bypass....it will happen, and there is nothing we can do about it.

Oh yes there is something we can do about it. Are you willing? If not, stop whining, because I am willing.

i am not whining...just facts.

since I have been here company has done what they have wanted...


accept things or move on...

I have accepted things...have been hired by FedEx and am now moving on...

To Fedex
 

Pardon the pun but one less septic in the system, hasta la vista.

Wow! How old are you? Typical jealous response.....

box

Or one less baseball cap being worn in the Gay Bar!

One less "Ride Report" request... :mad:

One less non standard ICAO r/t call... :ugh:

So, one less "septic tank"... has to be a win! Can't the AOA write that into CoS? :ok:

Interesting. Five posts on a topic that should concern everyone and then three bashing Americans. The point being FedEx wouldn't be hiring direct entry captains because they upgrade in seniority, end of story. They hire captains off the street its a war.

As far as baseball caps go, they are quite useful when you roll out of bed not knowing what time or time zone it is and you want to run downstairs real quick to grab a cup of coffee. It's also me wearing my team colors, same as a jersey for a "football" club. Real football starts this week by the way with college, NFL next week. And its not as bad as those brown bowling shoe type things I see all around, or jeans crawling up the crack of your a**.

Non-standart R/T. I rarely hear that from our airplanes, no matter where the guy seems to be from. There are some of us who actually flew overseas prior to Cathay, believe it or not. Do I speak the "lingo" sometimes going into JFK or other high density airports in North America? You betcha. And if you sit there making an ass out of yourself demanding ICAO standard phraseology from New York Tracon be prepared for a trip to the back of the line.

I've been here almost eight years, not a long time, but not one person on any of my crews has ever asked for a ride report or chased smooth air. And honestly, if you're on a CEPAC track, getting the crap kicked out of you, and you hear an American or United talking about smooth air close by you'd ignore it? Listening out for turbulence or lack of is part of the job and I'll take all the info I can get. Yeah, the whole ride report thing in North America is annoying, but I don't see guys carrying it over to Cathay. And there are annoying local habits everywhere we fly. Its part of the job.

I'm much more interested in the original post and wonder if anyone else has heard anything.

Good post 8driver.

The notion that American pilots are anything less than top notch is a sham. No aviation system in the world safely transports more passengers and cargo than the USA despite its antiquated ATC systems. Sure, the industry in the states has had it tough in the last decade, but I think the legacy carriers in EU and Oz are starting to feel the heat from LCCs as well. This will happen over time in Asia as well.

You guys prancing around the street like a bunch of twinks in your pressed shirts and trousers prove nothing except that you conform to the office quacks' whims without even being asked. I respect every pilot who has enough self confidence to walk to the laundry in a pair of shorts and flip flops. It's a layover for crying out loud, not a fashion show. If we had more Americans in CX, maybe this pilot group would have a little more spine. The Euros go running for cover at the first sound of a shot across the bow. I'm not sure you antipodians are much better.

Let's be honest fellas. We get exactly what we deserve. Until we demand better and are willing to stand behind those demands, we will continue to get inflation-lagging pay rises, attacks on our CoS, unqualified NJers, and no respect from management. I don't think Americans are at the root of the problem. Most are still in their first five years with the company. Those who have been here 10-20 years are responsible for the current mess. You boys even managed to make a skinny zoologist look like a tough guy.

CXorcist

PS - Maybe DECs on the bus would be aggregeous enough to cause the long overdue pilot revolt!?!

8Driver
 

Are you referring to that NAM game played in bondage gear that very rarely utilises the foot...but is affectionately called "football" ?
Real men play rugby...no need for bondage gear as homosexual cuddling takes place on the field. :O

With regards to the original post... Is this about DEC to FedEx or CX? :confused:

I think one of main reason they are looking at hiring DEC (if they are), is due to the icadet program:yuk:….The plan was to bring qualified people in to this program on reduce pay and condition have them be a SO for couple of years and then move up the ladder to JFO,FO, CA…..will it didn’t pan out as they thought it would:D….most if not all the icadet are low /no time guys, it will take CX few yrs to train these guys to be ready to take on the duties of SO…until such time they can’t upgrade any SO to JFO and than FO, if they do, they will be short on SO….same goes for the FO. When a company hires DEC it usually means they are short on FO… Beside it cheaper and easier to hire DEC… all it takes is one training event not 3

Flynhigh..

You are correct, DEC only requires one training event (course). The problem is CX's last foray into the world of DEC's wasn't particularly successful because not too many of the candidates passed and many more required significantly more sector 'events' than the prescribed course.

I am sure we will all reserve judgement until something becomes more than rumors. I will say that, if true, there will be an exodus from this company that would make them regret the day they even brought it up. Remember, most NAM guys have less than 5 yrs invested with Cathay and would gladly leave if this place turns into Korean.

Standing by.....

It doesn't take much for the mud-slinging to come out does it? Really... criticizing what guys are wearing around CX City and insinuating that "Euros" and "Antipodeans" are spineless - what exactly are you on?

You sound like a nonce when you bring it down to this. It's about as mature as the Airbus vs. Boeing argument. But you wouldn't partake in that, would you?

Grow up.

8driver
 

True, true, true. One NY controller was overwhelmed with "ride reports" so much that he had told everybody that it was "reported smooth at FL190 by a King Air" . . . and then everybody shut up. :D

He started it ...:E

Seriously....WTF is wrong with you lot? I have to fly with far too many of you rather immature and self-important wankers. Surely I don''t have to see it proven here as well. Most of the Yanks are great guys, and good pilots. I would rather see a good pilot with average RT, than good RT with average pilot skills. I think we have bigger battles to fight. Everyone who leaves for another carrier is doing the rest of us a favour, not because the individual himself is leaving, but because it puts pressure on CX. :ugh:

Airprofit,

Very well put. I can't believe some of the people on this board have nothing better to do than whine about "ride reports and baseball caps". By the way, I recently flew with an Aussie who wears a ball cap while flying. Oh what a world, what a world!!......

Box

Was talking to one of the office wallahs during the week. Seems management have come to accept a certain level of by-pass pay and then the math made sense to hire a number of DE captains to cover the shortfall. Savings on training courses and reduced housing and reduces the overtime bill. Recruiting now around asia for starts before the end of the year. Initially the airbus fleet.

So will our trainers be readily jumping in to train them?:ugh:

Oh thats right, probably cos they are already captains, no worries for them:ok:

Of course our trainers will train them.
They all did this back in the 90's when ASL started, why should it be any different now.
You take the kings shilling...........you know the rest.
It was not right then, it's not right now, and it will not be right in the future.
Thoughts:-
What do we do about it.....
Are we united as a group .......
What is the AOA doing about it........
Without seniority what do we have?

Baseball caps I can handle, it's the dudes with the sunglasses after sunset, inside buildings and in a dark cabin then look like real idiots.

IF any of this is true , then the 777f's have to be on the list for DEC'S ? as 8 are coming 2013 onwards plus all the 300ers already booked in , they just can't get the manpower or enough training captains for the large amount of upgrades needed , so instead CX training captains will be training DEC captains , now that really stinks , they won't be no friend of mine anymore...:mad:

It stinks that CX is winning the race to the bottom, why can't it be some other airline ?:ugh:

Do trainers even have a choice? They train who they are ordered to train. This isn't a democracy.

...they have a choice to be a trainer....

If DECs onto the pax fleet starts happening next year, the wheels should stop turning at CX full stop. In typical spineless CX fashion, guys start calling on others (in this case trainers) to put their heads above the parapet while keeping their own well hidden. I agree that being a trainer by choice in the times of ACC, AHK, and icadets is insane; but many of these guys are unwilling to take the "paycut" both financially and in terms of their ridiculously fragile egos. So I would not count on the trainers for anything.

If the AOA cannot provide leadership to the pilot group to stop DECs, then they will truly fail the membership through their ineptitude. Newly elected AOA GC: this is your mandate - STOP DECs. If WE don't, the housing allowance will be attacked from both sides, icadets and DECs. The company will hold promotions over your head by threatening to give them to cheaper pilots if you do not accept the housing concessions. WAKE UP!!!

It is pretty simple math boys and girls. If we cannot get our collective selves to grow some spine, forget about having a career at CX. This place will well and truly have turned into a contract job like so many of the other Asian airlines employing expats.

CXorcist

The DPA prevented DEC's onto the B744 several years ago by requesting from IFALPA a hiring ban be put on the airline. It's a pretty simple, yet effective way of deterring pilots from joining the airline. Perhaps the AOA might want to consider this avenue as well. Along side this, the AOA (that's all union members - committee and non-committee members) must decide whether or not the AOA will continue into the future. If the AOA (yes that's all of you!) allow DEC's to be permitted to Fornicate Under Consent of King the career paths of junior F/O's then the AOA, as far as I'm concerned, may as well close their doors. Membership will inevitably drop to an unsustainable level - as it rightly should.

This thread is just a wind-up. Chill, boys and girls!

Don't underestimate the effect of an IFALPA hiring ban. During certain unpleasantness with the airline a bit over a decade ago, one was in place.

Of all the tactics that the Association had been using, this really got the attention of senior management, and the small-statured DFO of the day shrilly complained about it in many of his 'updates'.

May I recommend reading "The 49ers - The true story" to get an insight into the Swire playbook.

Care to elaborate?

DEC are a win all round. Guys get straight into the left seat without jumping through all the hoops. The company can employ them on conditions well below what they a pay B scale skipper as a package. And in the right seat they will have highly experienced guys who now do 18-20 yrs to command, who know the CX system and will be keeping an eye on them. A cockup in the cockpit and everyone gets a bollocking (translate as cat B or D for the F/O involved).

Lots of high time 777 skippers floating about, so I'm surprised the company hasn't started with them earlier than now. More fun to fly for than contract work for a Korean or a Chinese carrier.

Except that you now pay BPP regardless of Cos99/08. So you get a cheap skipper, but an FO that makes as much as B scale CN1 on full package. Only advantage to DEC is recruitment and elimination of FO and SO courses to replace upgrading FO and SO. That said, this would definitely start/continue a very dark period in management / pilot relations, not to mention a hiring ban.

BPP regardless of CoS99/08? What are you smoking? BPP is only paid for captains over age 55. If these supposed DECs (this thread is a wind-up anyway, but I'm bored so I thought I'd dispute your BS post) are younger than 55, no BPP will be paid to anyone. If they're 55 or older, yes, BPP would be paid to FOs, but ONLY CoS99 FOs. Duh. You must be brain-dead.

Oval,

What are you smoking? Or are you brain dead? Check your CoS under promotion on page 3. Seems they might have to pay for going around that little tidbit... Might want to think before you post, especially since course deferral compensation has been paid for as long as I can remember.

CXorcist

Since when is the COS worth the paper it's written on?

Picture this..........

CX bring in DECs, AOA goes to court and wins CX appeals and wins no BPP. :ugh:

Pilots bitch and moan take no industrial action and return to the status quo.

Management where are you? This is ripe for adding to your bonus :}

They are hiring DEC due training constraints and the large number of aircraft turning up. This is completely different from BPP. No way they will pay a cent or need to. The guy didn't extend over 55 he started employment with the company as a DEC when he was over 55. Easy.

Hiring DEC and paying BPP, you guys crack me up. Did you hear the one about the hooker with dysentery........

as i said before...

company will do whatever they want.