Alpha Floor
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 28
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Alpha Floor
Inadvertent flap selection led to alpha floor activation
While departing HKG on a Bream 3 SID, after passing 1500 feet climb thrust was set and the modes called, after which the PF requested "Pack 1 ON". The PNF inadvertently selected the flap up and the Alpha Floor activated.
After a momentary assessment Flap 1 was reselected and the climb and clean up carried out. The flight continued without further incident.
Comments by CSD
At the acceleration altitude (approximately 1600 ft) the PF called "Pack1 ON". He commented that he was expecting the "flaps" call. On hearing the call for "Pack 1 ON' he selected the flaps to "0" he selected the flaps to "0" without calling "speed checked". He selected Pack 1 and then Pack 2 to the ON position. On the Captains command he then selected the flap to 1. ATC communications were not a factor.
The F/O had recently completed his CCQ and this was his third or fourth long haul sector on the A340. It was approximately 5AM when his partner left for work and had not slept before commencing duty.
Findings
Non -adherence to SOP's- "Pack 1 ON" is not a standard call. The selection of the Packs to ON is automatically complete by the PNF following thrust reduction. The PNF did not call "speed checked" prior to retraction the flaps to "0"
The PNF, who was new to the A340 fleet, had been awake for 19 hours prior to departure.
The crew recovered from this incident well. The remainder of the flight was without incident.
QQOR data:
Time Event
1623:29 Climb Thrust selected
1623:34 Flap 0 was selected and the flaps and slats began to retract (CAS was 176 knots and S-speed was approximately 220 knots)
1623:49 Alpha Floor activation
1623:47 Slats fully retracted
1624:00 Flap 1 selected
1624:02 Alpha Floor mode changes to TOGA Lock
The Hong Kong Civil Aviation Department states this is not a safety issue.
This is one of at least 3 in total from different fleets. Probably more.
Clearly this is not a problem.
While departing HKG on a Bream 3 SID, after passing 1500 feet climb thrust was set and the modes called, after which the PF requested "Pack 1 ON". The PNF inadvertently selected the flap up and the Alpha Floor activated.
After a momentary assessment Flap 1 was reselected and the climb and clean up carried out. The flight continued without further incident.
Comments by CSD
At the acceleration altitude (approximately 1600 ft) the PF called "Pack1 ON". He commented that he was expecting the "flaps" call. On hearing the call for "Pack 1 ON' he selected the flaps to "0" he selected the flaps to "0" without calling "speed checked". He selected Pack 1 and then Pack 2 to the ON position. On the Captains command he then selected the flap to 1. ATC communications were not a factor.
The F/O had recently completed his CCQ and this was his third or fourth long haul sector on the A340. It was approximately 5AM when his partner left for work and had not slept before commencing duty.
Findings
Non -adherence to SOP's- "Pack 1 ON" is not a standard call. The selection of the Packs to ON is automatically complete by the PNF following thrust reduction. The PNF did not call "speed checked" prior to retraction the flaps to "0"
The PNF, who was new to the A340 fleet, had been awake for 19 hours prior to departure.
The crew recovered from this incident well. The remainder of the flight was without incident.
QQOR data:
Time Event
1623:29 Climb Thrust selected
1623:34 Flap 0 was selected and the flaps and slats began to retract (CAS was 176 knots and S-speed was approximately 220 knots)
1623:49 Alpha Floor activation
1623:47 Slats fully retracted
1624:00 Flap 1 selected
1624:02 Alpha Floor mode changes to TOGA Lock
The Hong Kong Civil Aviation Department states this is not a safety issue.
This is one of at least 3 in total from different fleets. Probably more.
Clearly this is not a problem.
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 464
Likes: 0
From: UK
Clearly a dozy PNF in more ways than one!
It also demonstrates the importance of adhering to standard calls.
It also demonstrates the safety of the Airbus as it immediately compensated for the stupidity of the human pilot (an engineers dream!).
p.s. I am not an engineer.
It also demonstrates the importance of adhering to standard calls.
It also demonstrates the safety of the Airbus as it immediately compensated for the stupidity of the human pilot (an engineers dream!).
p.s. I am not an engineer.
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 3
From: Arizona USA
Gotta have a scorecard '57
...can see where these guys are coming from...scheduling BAD, no rest possible, call in sick get a letter, and another etc..
What they really need to do is (what a novel idea) pay attention.
ALL part of the AOA bag 'o tricks, ALPO style.
What they fail to realise is that the CX management have not just fallen off the turnip truck last week.
...can see where these guys are coming from...scheduling BAD, no rest possible, call in sick get a letter, and another etc..
What they really need to do is (what a novel idea) pay attention.
ALL part of the AOA bag 'o tricks, ALPO style.
What they fail to realise is that the CX management have not just fallen off the turnip truck last week.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Almost another one
CX CHIRP Feedback.
B747-400
Following a max weight takeoff, the PF called for flap retraction at well below flap retraction speed. The PNF hesitated and after a short period of confusion the situations was resolved. The PF realized his error and amended the call.
This is from last year. There were several more this year, hence the email from the Chief Pilot.
Again the Hong Kong Civil Aviation Department ( as stated in the papers) does not see this as a safety issue.
Maybe when the flaps go up and the aircraft stalls possibly leaving a big hole in TST, they will see this as a safety issue.
B747-400
Following a max weight takeoff, the PF called for flap retraction at well below flap retraction speed. The PNF hesitated and after a short period of confusion the situations was resolved. The PF realized his error and amended the call.
This is from last year. There were several more this year, hence the email from the Chief Pilot.
Again the Hong Kong Civil Aviation Department ( as stated in the papers) does not see this as a safety issue.
Maybe when the flaps go up and the aircraft stalls possibly leaving a big hole in TST, they will see this as a safety issue.
Longtimelurker
Joined: Nov 1998
Posts: 393
Likes: 0
From: killington Vt
Maybe just a few too many calls.I have liked the flow and check method just alittle bit better because of its mostly silent flight deck.
Last edited by filejw; 11th September 2002 at 12:15.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
Another flight safety 'scare' thread by an ill informed poster. What's the point of the thread? Safety standards dropping at CX? What a joke. Our recently completed in flight audit, supported by the AOA, certainly in no way supports this allegation ostensibly supported by the exposure of sensitive company information just to capture peoples attention. Indeed the copying of confidential information to this arena is despicable and thoroughly underhanded - I should expect no less. I'll give you a red herring to play with - hoorah my double century in posts, I know get back to work lmao.
