CX Poll
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
CX Poll
All CX crews will be invited to take part in a poll either at the end of this year, when industrial action resumes, or more likely the beginning of next, when Nick Rhodes replaces Ken Barley. The poll will take the form of a contract distributed by CX management to all the pilots. The contract will offer the abolition of B-scales for Captains and retirement at 60. The AOA will oppose any attempt by the management to communicate directly with their employees and will again ask that these contracts be sent to the Union. 80% of the pilots will accept the company offer. Those who do not will be deemed to have resigned. The pilots will thereby have demonstrated, unequivocally, that the AOA does not represent the majority view. The majority of pilots would welcome this opportunity to break the impasse. Do it now, Captain Barley and lets move on.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
From: Australia
Here's hoping,
If the new contract is presented, any pilot would be insane not to accept. If presented when (and if) industrial action goes ahead, the AOA will be helpless. Every pilot with half a brain in the company will sign the new contract. The industrial action will stop and the fighting SHOULD cease. However, the company will have "won" a battle, and quite a large one at that. The AOA will be no more in its previous entirety as no negotions between the AOA and CX will have taken place. This will be a moral (and physical) loss for the AOA. Therefore, a new AOA will have to be started. All this 49ers talk will be a thing of the past, and more resignations may occur, those who do not sign the new contract will get three months pay and a big D.C.M.
If the new contract is presented, any pilot would be insane not to accept. If presented when (and if) industrial action goes ahead, the AOA will be helpless. Every pilot with half a brain in the company will sign the new contract. The industrial action will stop and the fighting SHOULD cease. However, the company will have "won" a battle, and quite a large one at that. The AOA will be no more in its previous entirety as no negotions between the AOA and CX will have taken place. This will be a moral (and physical) loss for the AOA. Therefore, a new AOA will have to be started. All this 49ers talk will be a thing of the past, and more resignations may occur, those who do not sign the new contract will get three months pay and a big D.C.M.
Last edited by Hydrolix; 4th September 2002 at 23:51.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
From: USA
easy there tiger
Question: can someone please explain to me who they can abolish B-scaler captains, when there are not any. Does this mean from B sclae FO you become A scale Captain
Apparently I'm stupid, so if somebody would like to expalin it to me, please do 
Question: can someone please explain to me who they can abolish B-scaler captains, when there are not any. Does this mean from B sclae FO you become A scale Captain
Apparently I'm stupid, so if somebody would like to expalin it to me, please do
Last edited by aussie1; 5th September 2002 at 02:36.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
From: USA
I was being sarcastic DUDE
Geez guys lighten the hell up,
Thats what people do when they are bored. talk s@@t
Obviously they will get a pay raise. But I suppose the next question is by how much. And what other benefits will be taken away to compensate for this generosity.
Geez guys lighten the hell up,
Thats what people do when they are bored. talk s@@t
Obviously they will get a pay raise. But I suppose the next question is by how much. And what other benefits will be taken away to compensate for this generosity.
Last edited by aussie1; 5th September 2002 at 05:23.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
From: Australia
Current B scale captains who will move onto the A scale will get a raise of approx. 40%. The only benefits that may change is taxable housing assistance, and that the AOA may wilt and die. This will be the major bonus for the company which will compensate for the increase salaries. A suggestion would be to increase all salaries, (F/O, S/O) to a number somewhere in between A and B scales. This would make a greater number of people happier.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
No Liam, things are that good. This offer, in part, has been made before and was rejected by the AOA. If the company offers this direct to all pilots , however, the result would probably be quite different. I would imagine the offered contract would only contain improvements to current conditions and would be difficult to turn down. The only real losers in this scenario would be the AOA and the 49ers. The company is making money hand over fist at the moment and can certainly afford to be generous. The pilots, we, should do all we can to return to the negotiating table before this happens.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
From: the rez
Here we go again! When was this offer? You insist there was an offer. There was no offer like this or any other since 1 July last year.
And what is with this we crap. You aren't in the union, how can you say we should do all we can when you are doing nothing. In fact you are doing worse than nothing. If you aren't with us, you're against us. You are not part of this, you quit.
And what is with this we crap. You aren't in the union, how can you say we should do all we can when you are doing nothing. In fact you are doing worse than nothing. If you aren't with us, you're against us. You are not part of this, you quit.
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
From: the world
6Feet
Are you now saying that all that are not in the union are as good as those that are accepting jobs despite the ban. Boy does the AOA have big troubles.
If that is the attitude of the members of the AOA then I doubt it will survive on its present course of action.
And before you hook into me I am not a Cathay employee.
Are you now saying that all that are not in the union are as good as those that are accepting jobs despite the ban. Boy does the AOA have big troubles.
If that is the attitude of the members of the AOA then I doubt it will survive on its present course of action.
And before you hook into me I am not a Cathay employee.
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 476
Likes: 2
6 ft, you were lied to....the talks happened and the offer was made....I suggest you personally ask someone who attended such meeting and make sure you are sitting down.
Shame as the AOA had a large weapon if it held the moral high ground but unfortunately have been caught with their pants down. So much for representing the direction of all members rather than those of a a self serving few who are all comittee members and as a result I look foward to seeing the offer....now before you wet your pants note that I said seeing not signing....
Shame as the AOA had a large weapon if it held the moral high ground but unfortunately have been caught with their pants down. So much for representing the direction of all members rather than those of a a self serving few who are all comittee members and as a result I look foward to seeing the offer....now before you wet your pants note that I said seeing not signing....
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
From: the rez
I asked two of the three that were there, personally. You are calling them liars.
The management has called this an offer. It has succeeded in misleading some of the members of the AOA as well as almost all of the non-members. If you see an offer there can you please point it out, maybe I am missing something.
"Talks about talks" comprised a series of meetings last year between ****, ****, ****, **** and me. The meetings were brokered behind the scenes by the work of several non-Committee members. The purpose of the meetings was to establish whether or not there existed sufficient common ground to enter a formal negotiation to resolve contract, rostering and 49er issues. A wide range of ideas were exchanged and discussed during those meetings but they were just that – ideas. Offers are made during negotiations - “talks about talks” was not a negotiation. It was about sharing where each side could go in the hope of getting a mandate to enter formal negotiations.
Last edited by 6feetunder; 7th September 2002 at 10:03.
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Still don't see what is in this for the company.......
Shortly says "the only real losers... would be the AOA and the 49ers"...errrr isn't that over half the pilots in the company.
Should the company stuff contracts in the mailbox.... sorry... conduct a poll, would not the AOA say sign, take the cash, pay your subs and continue the fight.
I smell a rat.....
Finally, Shortly; negotiation involves give and take; what are you prepared to give???
Shortly says "the only real losers... would be the AOA and the 49ers"...errrr isn't that over half the pilots in the company.
Should the company stuff contracts in the mailbox.... sorry... conduct a poll, would not the AOA say sign, take the cash, pay your subs and continue the fight.
I smell a rat.....
Finally, Shortly; negotiation involves give and take; what are you prepared to give???
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
Liam, good points. But, I doubt the AOA would be happy with CX pilots signing contracts individually and would probably ask all pilots to send them in to the AOA for a union co-ordinated response. Should that occur and the majority of pilots ignore that request and sign anyway then the union would be in a very vulnerable position (likely to happen). The 49ers would be even more so. Finally don't really understand the question. If you are implying that I have some sort of input into what the company gives then you are way, way off beam. If you are feeding the vitriolic because I have resigned from the AOA, well I gave at the office and the office ignored me and went it's own way. All of that is, of course, beside the point. What is in all this for the company? I'm not sure. They could feel they were getting rid of 'malcontents', they could be giving a joining present for the new DFO in the form of a more settled workforce, they might not be sure and, as well as the AOA, have lost the plot. Whatever, it's going to cost them bucks and they can afford it. Nice post anyway.
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Tha AOA has no problem with people signing contracts individually, how else do you do it??? Further, noone would fall on their swords; by not signing you are resigning, which you are always at liberty to do.
You, and many others, propose dropping hands and negotiating a settlement. Until you know what angles the other side are running and can bring something of value to the negotiating table are you not disarming and pleading for mercy???
You, and many others, propose dropping hands and negotiating a settlement. Until you know what angles the other side are running and can bring something of value to the negotiating table are you not disarming and pleading for mercy???
Last edited by Liam Gallagher; 8th September 2002 at 00:32.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
Ty Liam. Yes Liam you would be capitulating. Sometimes when you seem to lose you win. I feel that if this goes to a management orchestrated conclusion then it will probably mean the end of the AOA. My knowledge base tells me that no outside (the SAR) influence will affect CX/SWIRE one jot. I know BA gave in to a court finding against it in the Middle East - but they didn't have to. And CX/SWIRE would not have. I think we are at a time where the company would like to get back to the table. China etc are close and will need extra aircrew. So how do we talk? Cancel the ban, have the current Committee step aside (honourably) promise to be good and faithful lackeys and get back to work - even some or all of the 49ers. Ok that's plan A, plan B being continue along the same road with faith in the overseas 'system'. That'll work honest it will, want to buy a used car? I appreciate your fair and reasonable debate Liam, makes a pleasant change.
