Ty Liam. Yes Liam you would be capitulating. Sometimes when you seem to lose you win. I feel that if this goes to a management orchestrated conclusion then it will probably mean the end of the AOA. My knowledge base tells me that no outside (the SAR) influence will affect CX/SWIRE one jot. I know BA gave in to a court finding against it in the Middle East - but they didn't have to. And CX/SWIRE would not have. I think we are at a time where the company would like to get back to the table. China etc are close and will need extra aircrew. So how do we talk? Cancel the ban, have the current Committee step aside (honourably) promise to be good and faithful lackeys and get back to work - even some or all of the 49ers. Ok that's plan A, plan B being continue along the same road with faith in the overseas 'system'. That'll work honest it will, want to buy a used car? I appreciate your fair and reasonable debate Liam, makes a pleasant change.