Taxi Speeds
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Taxi Speeds
Will operating crew soon be summoned for third floor interviews by someone who does not understand what happens on the line? Taxiing below 15 knots has become an issue with management apparantly. With lots of ground incidents happening across the globe, does management want a cathay aircraft to appear on the headlines for a ground collision? Ultimately, it is the Commanders responsibility to ensure the safety of an aircraft. The most recent email sent out by Mr.Burns mentioned that 'we pride ourselves on our pilots with high levels of proficiency and operational standards' but yet our pilots are being paid dirt cheap rates and constantly put up with sh*t and now are being threatened with management interrogations for taxiing slower than what they think is possible. This is just adding onto a pile of psychological problems for operating crew on top of the existing issues which were never rectified.
Unfortunately this is what crew have to face everyday so to the new joiners and interviewees I suggest you look elsewhere for employment. And to the frequent travelers who fly with cathay, if you aren't already doing so I beg that you fly with another carrier for your own sake.
Unfortunately this is what crew have to face everyday so to the new joiners and interviewees I suggest you look elsewhere for employment. And to the frequent travelers who fly with cathay, if you aren't already doing so I beg that you fly with another carrier for your own sake.
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If salaries for pilots is 2% of the operating cost. Has any of the geniuses figured out the cost of engine time, brakes usage and fuel for these slow taxi speeds. Seems to me they could fix the problem easily and things would go back to normal. But I guess getting a bigger stick to management is better than being fair and reasonable to the pilots.
Last edited by RAT Management; 20th Apr 2023 at 22:42.
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So Cathay pilots are being incentivised to operate the aircraft inefficiently and no other airlines operating to HKG have this problem. Sounds like a systemic failure.
Fix the systemic issue and the problem gets resolved. Any worthy manager would realise this, but instead there is the usual threat and intimidation tactics.
Workplace intimidation only creates a toxic culture and forums such as this are good to expose such a culture.
And besides with people being so interconnected nowadays through various chat groups, it tends to make people more resolute, so management’s hostile posturing is in this case like pissing in to a typhoon wind.
Fix the systemic issue and the problem gets resolved. Any worthy manager would realise this, but instead there is the usual threat and intimidation tactics.
Workplace intimidation only creates a toxic culture and forums such as this are good to expose such a culture.
And besides with people being so interconnected nowadays through various chat groups, it tends to make people more resolute, so management’s hostile posturing is in this case like pissing in to a typhoon wind.
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It's only the beginning. With AI soon every nano-second of every flight will be monitored and analyzed. I think this will affect every commercial flight everywhere.
Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 21st Apr 2023 at 11:10.
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well if it's CAT 2 outside sure 10kts whatever nice and slow
normal running around would be around 20kts, with backtrack at 30kts
if you're backtracking or running around at 10kts then you're 100 years old and I'd be banging my head on the dash
lol
normal running around would be around 20kts, with backtrack at 30kts
if you're backtracking or running around at 10kts then you're 100 years old and I'd be banging my head on the dash
lol
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If you want to hate management etc by all means, but remember all companies managers are the same small brained nutters brownnosing each other in the office to climb their own ladder.
But if you are deliberately practicing poor airmanship then that's a whole different level of childishness, and you become just as bad as them and every other "terrible" pilot, try rise above it and set a good example to your co-pilot / captain. Who cares what these moronic managers are doing or saying, when you come to work just try at least have a good time and not plant it into the side of a mountain or even the runway because you're angry 24/7, leave the politics on the ground for the pub.
But if you are deliberately practicing poor airmanship then that's a whole different level of childishness, and you become just as bad as them and every other "terrible" pilot, try rise above it and set a good example to your co-pilot / captain. Who cares what these moronic managers are doing or saying, when you come to work just try at least have a good time and not plant it into the side of a mountain or even the runway because you're angry 24/7, leave the politics on the ground for the pub.
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I get that and I think its a fair position, we all would rather go to work and not let it affect us but the reality is that it does. Have to fly safe of course, but if your in an empty airport (as HK often is) are you really gonna gun it down on the backtrack at 30kts when the new contract financially incentives you and rewards you for every minute you take? Be a good example? As bad as them? Im here to make money not show the company what a great pilot I am on my new cos. They designed this system of which only they can change, we are just playing within it.
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Pay sched or better, there will be no more issues. You can go ahead and monitor my taxi speeds all you want, I really do not care. Slow taxi speeds add up to a significant pay difference over the course of a year on this absolutely garbage contract. Do the right thing for once... yeah right. Rather keep the pilots miserable.
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Pay sched or better, there will be no more issues. You can go ahead and monitor my taxi speeds all you want, I really do not care. Slow taxi speeds add up to a significant pay difference over the course of a year on this absolutely garbage contract. Do the right thing for once... yeah right. Rather keep the pilots miserable.
Last edited by Starbear; 21st Apr 2023 at 22:54.
And it's also extremely selfish, you're not the only ones using the airport. Have you ever noticed the long trail of aircraft behind you as you taxi at 5 knots along F/T/A after vacating 07L? But you obviously don't care about others, it's all about you, right?
Last edited by Sue Ridgepipe; 22nd Apr 2023 at 02:01. Reason: grammar
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If you want to hate management etc by all means, but remember all companies managers are the same small brained nutters brownnosing each other in the office to climb their own ladder.
But if you are deliberately practicing poor airmanship then that's a whole different level of childishness, and you become just as bad as them and every other "terrible" pilot, try rise above it and set a good example to your co-pilot / captain. Who cares what these moronic managers are doing or saying, when you come to work just try at least have a good time and not plant it into the side of a mountain or even the runway because you're angry 24/7, leave the politics on the ground for the pub.
But if you are deliberately practicing poor airmanship then that's a whole different level of childishness, and you become just as bad as them and every other "terrible" pilot, try rise above it and set a good example to your co-pilot / captain. Who cares what these moronic managers are doing or saying, when you come to work just try at least have a good time and not plant it into the side of a mountain or even the runway because you're angry 24/7, leave the politics on the ground for the pub.
Someone gave it here, pay the highest of scheduled and actual.
Do you think raising the minimum hours thresholds helped ?
As for you Sue Ridgepipe, when you lost 50+% of your income you do what you have to do; hopefully you will never be in that position. Again let’s have a look at the cause to find the solution, taving slow is just an expression of a different deeply rooted problem. Punishing someone doesn’t eliminate the problem it will just create more resentment
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small minded..
So Zi Peng from Angola and the rest who don't think this is pathetic, do you shut down 2 engines on the 74 during flight or maybe just throttle the 777 back to just above stall speed on your now 95hr flight from HK - LHR so you can earn an extra $200 at the end of the year? I mean where do you draw the line at being a bad airman? And do you do these sort of petty things in your every day life outside of aviation?
Airfares around the world have doubled since covid, but you're quite happy to quickly jump ship and head off to eg. Emirates who are screwing over their customers, but hey we don't care about them because I'm ok, how does that saying go, "ef you, Jack, I'm alright."
Aviation is now run by such petty people.
Just set a good example, there are others in the cockpit / office / home who might just look up to you.
So Zi Peng from Angola and the rest who don't think this is pathetic, do you shut down 2 engines on the 74 during flight or maybe just throttle the 777 back to just above stall speed on your now 95hr flight from HK - LHR so you can earn an extra $200 at the end of the year? I mean where do you draw the line at being a bad airman? And do you do these sort of petty things in your every day life outside of aviation?
Airfares around the world have doubled since covid, but you're quite happy to quickly jump ship and head off to eg. Emirates who are screwing over their customers, but hey we don't care about them because I'm ok, how does that saying go, "ef you, Jack, I'm alright."
Aviation is now run by such petty people.
Just set a good example, there are others in the cockpit / office / home who might just look up to you.
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small minded..
So Zi Peng from Angola and the rest who don't think this is pathetic, do you shut down 2 engines on the 74 during flight or maybe just throttle the 777 back to just above stall speed on your now 95hr flight from HK - LHR so you can earn an extra $200 at the end of the year? I mean where do you draw the line at being a bad airman? And do you do these sort of petty things in your every day life outside of aviation?
Airfares around the world have doubled since covid, but you're quite happy to quickly jump ship and head off to eg. Emirates who are screwing over their customers, but hey we don't care about them because I'm ok, how does that saying go, "ef you, Jack, I'm alright."
Aviation is now run by such petty people.
Just set a good example, there are others in the cockpit / office / home who might just look up to you.
So Zi Peng from Angola and the rest who don't think this is pathetic, do you shut down 2 engines on the 74 during flight or maybe just throttle the 777 back to just above stall speed on your now 95hr flight from HK - LHR so you can earn an extra $200 at the end of the year? I mean where do you draw the line at being a bad airman? And do you do these sort of petty things in your every day life outside of aviation?
Airfares around the world have doubled since covid, but you're quite happy to quickly jump ship and head off to eg. Emirates who are screwing over their customers, but hey we don't care about them because I'm ok, how does that saying go, "ef you, Jack, I'm alright."
Aviation is now run by such petty people.
Just set a good example, there are others in the cockpit / office / home who might just look up to you.
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You can all take a deep breath. It's over anyway, one letter is all it takes in this business. Taxi speed will be back to normal. Remember the extra fuel debate and how it was solved with a monthly chart?
Soon you will get automatically marked for any exceedence or irregularity anyway. Every step climb, every speed etc. Welcome to the new world of transparent real-time data and AI processing power.
Soon you will get automatically marked for any exceedence or irregularity anyway. Every step climb, every speed etc. Welcome to the new world of transparent real-time data and AI processing power.
Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 22nd Apr 2023 at 11:47.
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It's well known and mentioned by many authors of books on the subject of airmansbip, this mythical word, that you won't find two pilots who agree on the exact definition of it.
How well one wears the uniform, the fit, cleanliness, proper buttoning, the tie, hat etc. Following the rules, regulations and SOPs. Not following rules, regulations and SOPs when doing so would delay or cancel the flight or otherwise is inconvenient to self, passengers or the company. Being a master in operating the aircraft throughout its operating envelope and phases. Being good at nothing but operating the aircraft in the most fuel/money efficient way. The list goes on.
Some apparently think it means being a chump. If I've learned anything in 30+ years in the airline business, is that unfortunately you'll never get anything you want from any airline unless you hurt them in the pocket book. You have to make it so they come to you with their grievances not the other way around. If you follow negotiations at companies that pay their pilots the highest, work to rule and general slowdowns start before the negotiations have even started. The lesson is learned a long time ago.
The same day contract cancelation and 50% pay & benefits cuts were announced, slow taxiing, not requesting or accepting directs, not starting engines until pushback was complete etc started. Starting that day I never taxied faster than 5-10 knots, never asked for or accepted a direct from ATC, never started engines until pushback complete, planned my autobrake setting to result in longer taxi and more. My financial well being was directly affected by it all.
The reason why airlines implemented block time pay guarantee back in the 60s was not because they liked their pilots so much. It was because a large majority were doing all possible to add every minute to every flight and make sure at le least they don't end up with less pay than their monthly awarded schedule and once they got started down that path it also became a way to make maximum pay as much as possible. It became normalized. Routine requests to hold in the penalty box "due to technical etc issue", requesting random holds "to burn excess fuel due max landing weight" and more were common. The companies tried to intimidate pilots into compliance but to no avail. Afterall if most of your pilots are doing it you can't fire them all. Firing a few at a time was also tried to no avail. It didn't stop them. It costs cathay 20 times more in operational cost of the aircraft in fuel and engine maintenance alone than what a pilot gets paid for every minute, under cos18 FO 1 scale. 10 times in CA pay. But do you think they're smart enough to be able to do the math? Did it take them 2.5 years to finally notice?
The cathay geniuses who decided on cathay being the only airline to not pay block hour guarantee have obviously not read the history of this practice and why it was adopted in the first place. Incompetent management at its worst.
What cathay management is complaining about, taxi speeds and many many other ways pilots are adding time to flights, is obviously very common for them to feel the pain. Whatever they thought has obviously been wrong on this issue. 2.5 years of adding time to flights. How much has that cost them?
But don't hold your breath. Cathay is a colonial outfit. Such outfits chronically suffer from Incompetent management. They never admit to their fkkk'ups. They keep doing what has been proven painfully to be damaging financially and otherwise every day but never correct it because doing so is admission to the Incompetent mistake in the first place. They will ride the sinking ship to the bottom and never admit to being wrong.
Read the book called "Chaos of empire". Its a true history of the disasterous colonialism in British India. You will he struck with extreme similarities of that failed endeavor and how cathay management operates. The language, the attitudes, the behaviors, the beliefs of these people are extremely alike. And what they couldn't achieve via competence and skill, they always attempted to achieve via shear force & violence instead.
Who are the swires afterall anyway? One of the original few pirate families who got mother England to forcefully take hong kong for them so they could keep selling opium in China. Who they are has not changed. They have little or no influence left but still have the same stripes.
They won't change anything back and will ride this sinking ship until it sinks rather than fix what they've broken.
Get off this sinking ship as soon as you can. But while you're still on it, ask yourself a very important question when they're wanting you to operate as money efficient to the company as you can while you're struggling financially and barely surviving at best or are bankrupt already while they seek new ways to squeeze more blood out of you every day with new policies.
Ask yourself if you're a chump.
Others Know the answer by your taxi speed.
How well one wears the uniform, the fit, cleanliness, proper buttoning, the tie, hat etc. Following the rules, regulations and SOPs. Not following rules, regulations and SOPs when doing so would delay or cancel the flight or otherwise is inconvenient to self, passengers or the company. Being a master in operating the aircraft throughout its operating envelope and phases. Being good at nothing but operating the aircraft in the most fuel/money efficient way. The list goes on.
Some apparently think it means being a chump. If I've learned anything in 30+ years in the airline business, is that unfortunately you'll never get anything you want from any airline unless you hurt them in the pocket book. You have to make it so they come to you with their grievances not the other way around. If you follow negotiations at companies that pay their pilots the highest, work to rule and general slowdowns start before the negotiations have even started. The lesson is learned a long time ago.
The same day contract cancelation and 50% pay & benefits cuts were announced, slow taxiing, not requesting or accepting directs, not starting engines until pushback was complete etc started. Starting that day I never taxied faster than 5-10 knots, never asked for or accepted a direct from ATC, never started engines until pushback complete, planned my autobrake setting to result in longer taxi and more. My financial well being was directly affected by it all.
The reason why airlines implemented block time pay guarantee back in the 60s was not because they liked their pilots so much. It was because a large majority were doing all possible to add every minute to every flight and make sure at le least they don't end up with less pay than their monthly awarded schedule and once they got started down that path it also became a way to make maximum pay as much as possible. It became normalized. Routine requests to hold in the penalty box "due to technical etc issue", requesting random holds "to burn excess fuel due max landing weight" and more were common. The companies tried to intimidate pilots into compliance but to no avail. Afterall if most of your pilots are doing it you can't fire them all. Firing a few at a time was also tried to no avail. It didn't stop them. It costs cathay 20 times more in operational cost of the aircraft in fuel and engine maintenance alone than what a pilot gets paid for every minute, under cos18 FO 1 scale. 10 times in CA pay. But do you think they're smart enough to be able to do the math? Did it take them 2.5 years to finally notice?
The cathay geniuses who decided on cathay being the only airline to not pay block hour guarantee have obviously not read the history of this practice and why it was adopted in the first place. Incompetent management at its worst.
What cathay management is complaining about, taxi speeds and many many other ways pilots are adding time to flights, is obviously very common for them to feel the pain. Whatever they thought has obviously been wrong on this issue. 2.5 years of adding time to flights. How much has that cost them?
But don't hold your breath. Cathay is a colonial outfit. Such outfits chronically suffer from Incompetent management. They never admit to their fkkk'ups. They keep doing what has been proven painfully to be damaging financially and otherwise every day but never correct it because doing so is admission to the Incompetent mistake in the first place. They will ride the sinking ship to the bottom and never admit to being wrong.
Read the book called "Chaos of empire". Its a true history of the disasterous colonialism in British India. You will he struck with extreme similarities of that failed endeavor and how cathay management operates. The language, the attitudes, the behaviors, the beliefs of these people are extremely alike. And what they couldn't achieve via competence and skill, they always attempted to achieve via shear force & violence instead.
Who are the swires afterall anyway? One of the original few pirate families who got mother England to forcefully take hong kong for them so they could keep selling opium in China. Who they are has not changed. They have little or no influence left but still have the same stripes.
They won't change anything back and will ride this sinking ship until it sinks rather than fix what they've broken.
Get off this sinking ship as soon as you can. But while you're still on it, ask yourself a very important question when they're wanting you to operate as money efficient to the company as you can while you're struggling financially and barely surviving at best or are bankrupt already while they seek new ways to squeeze more blood out of you every day with new policies.
Ask yourself if you're a chump.
Others Know the answer by your taxi speed.
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If you want to hate management etc by all means, but remember all companies managers are the same small brained nutters brownnosing each other in the office to climb their own ladder.
But if you are deliberately practicing poor airmanship then that's a whole different level of childishness, and you become just as bad as them and every other "terrible" pilot, try rise above it and set a good example to your co-pilot / captain. Who cares what these moronic managers are doing or saying, when you come to work just try at least have a good time and not plant it into the side of a mountain or even the runway because you're angry 24/7, leave the politics on the ground for the pub.
But if you are deliberately practicing poor airmanship then that's a whole different level of childishness, and you become just as bad as them and every other "terrible" pilot, try rise above it and set a good example to your co-pilot / captain. Who cares what these moronic managers are doing or saying, when you come to work just try at least have a good time and not plant it into the side of a mountain or even the runway because you're angry 24/7, leave the politics on the ground for the pub.
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that is the most retarded post I have ever read on the forum. You must be the utmost loser to ever work for CX if you do actually work for them. Swire are them most immoral management in airline history that have raped pilots and you have the audacity to call it poor airmanship.
Good post V, thanks for the book reccomend.