When will CX restart hiring DESO?
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I have nothing to do with management. I am making a simple observation that you are living well beyond your means. My wife and I have one child & live perfectly fine, sure we don't have a fleet of private cars and rolex watches but we don't live in the Instagram world. My child goes to a "foreign private school" and no not Harrow. We both live in a nice large-ish apartment and don't eat out of the dustbin. You cannot expect to live in a 5000 sqft2 apartment with a rooftop garden, a helper, with a stay at home wife who photographs herself 24/7 and lives her life on botox and crossfit. Maybe wait till you become a captain then she can venture down that path. This is HK, one of the most expensive cities in the world, but you choose where you want to live and how you want to live.
My wife and I both save "enough" each month, sure we don't have fancy overseas holidays in Bora Bora every single year and go to SKYE every weekend, but come on get real!
If you live modestly, save diligently and wait your turn until you climb the ladder to become a captain then you will have more than enough for retirement. If you try keep up with the Joneses you will fail and be broke.
My wife and I both save "enough" each month, sure we don't have fancy overseas holidays in Bora Bora every single year and go to SKYE every weekend, but come on get real!
If you live modestly, save diligently and wait your turn until you climb the ladder to become a captain then you will have more than enough for retirement. If you try keep up with the Joneses you will fail and be broke.
The pilots @ CX did not move to Hong Kong to live like that. They moved to make sure that when they get back to their home country and not living off government welfare or hand to mouth.
The reason pilots @ CX moved to HK is to enjoy life, give their children a decent education and to travel and save for retirement. Something CX swine management has taken away.
The front line staff at CX are not dumber than management, they moved on as CX is no long a VIABLE option to enjoy life. Hence the exodus.
Hong Kong is no longer a lovable or liveable city, it’s a use and abuse city for expats. If you can’t save and still enjoy life’s luxuries then why would anyone want to live here.
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”Live Modestly, save diligently” you sound like you moved states to live the same way you were back in your home country.
The pilots @ CX did not move to Hong Kong to live like that. They moved to make sure that when they get back to their home country and not living off government welfare or hand to mouth.
The reason pilots @ CX moved to HK is to enjoy life, give their children a decent education and to travel and save for retirement. Something CX swine management has taken away.
The front line staff at CX are not dumber than management, they moved on as CX is no long a VIABLE option to enjoy life. Hence the exodus.
Hong Kong is no longer a lovable or liveable city, it’s a use and abuse city for expats. If you can’t save and still enjoy life’s luxuries then why would anyone want to live here.
The pilots @ CX did not move to Hong Kong to live like that. They moved to make sure that when they get back to their home country and not living off government welfare or hand to mouth.
The reason pilots @ CX moved to HK is to enjoy life, give their children a decent education and to travel and save for retirement. Something CX swine management has taken away.
The front line staff at CX are not dumber than management, they moved on as CX is no long a VIABLE option to enjoy life. Hence the exodus.
Hong Kong is no longer a lovable or liveable city, it’s a use and abuse city for expats. If you can’t save and still enjoy life’s luxuries then why would anyone want to live here.
Oh, and don't think the attacks on pay and conditions are over. I heard the other day from the CP himself that the hour threshold will be raised again soon. Meaning a further pay cut and a second rise in threshold hours within 6 months.
Everyone better get used to living on the base rate. Because you can see where the target hours are heading.
What a load of hyperbolic nonsense. The notion that CX pilots today live in 5,000 sq.ft apartments, possess fleets of private cars and collections of Rolexes, etc, is pure fantasy. Pilots who joined CX 30 years ago didn’t enjoy such luxuries during their careers, so how could anyone do it today?
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We live in a small rented apartment, we had to move to a smaller one due cos18. Never had a car in HK and always had a Casio watch. Recently had our first holiday, 5 days in cheap Thailand, after 4 years due covid. My wife has two jobs. We don't use instagram. Our social life come from sports so tend to hang out with normal people. My son doesn't go to Harrow he's not rich or good enough, he's good at sports so we haven't paid for that for years.
So you definitely don't know much of what you are talking about, you might want to ask the 777 guys flying regional almost the threshold, the 74 with the last threshold raise have lost 5k a month (FOs).
Like I wrote above it can be done but it is not enjoyable or long term if you join now as a non local SO, that is what this thread is about, DESO which generally I wouldn't encourage at the moment.
As for STW I guess he doesn't deserve a comment, he keeps coming back to this forum as much as he doesn't like it just to stir the ****.
So you definitely don't know much of what you are talking about, you might want to ask the 777 guys flying regional almost the threshold, the 74 with the last threshold raise have lost 5k a month (FOs).
Like I wrote above it can be done but it is not enjoyable or long term if you join now as a non local SO, that is what this thread is about, DESO which generally I wouldn't encourage at the moment.
As for STW I guess he doesn't deserve a comment, he keeps coming back to this forum as much as he doesn't like it just to stir the ****.
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We live in a small rented apartment, we had to move to a smaller one due cos18. Never had a car in HK and always had a Casio watch. Recently had our first holiday, 5 days in cheap Thailand, after 4 years due covid. My wife has two jobs. We don't use instagram. Our social life come from sports so tend to hang out with normal people. My son doesn't go to Harrow he's not rich or good enough, he's good at sports so we haven't paid for that for years.
So you definitely don't know much of what you are talking about, you might want to ask the 777 guys flying regional almost the threshold, the 74 with the last threshold raise have lost 5k a month (FOs).
Like I wrote above it can be done but it is not enjoyable or long term if you join now as a non local SO, that is what this thread is about, DESO which generally I wouldn't encourage at the moment.
As for STW I guess he doesn't deserve a comment, he keeps coming back to this forum as much as he doesn't like it just to stir the ****.
So you definitely don't know much of what you are talking about, you might want to ask the 777 guys flying regional almost the threshold, the 74 with the last threshold raise have lost 5k a month (FOs).
Like I wrote above it can be done but it is not enjoyable or long term if you join now as a non local SO, that is what this thread is about, DESO which generally I wouldn't encourage at the moment.
As for STW I guess he doesn't deserve a comment, he keeps coming back to this forum as much as he doesn't like it just to stir the ****.
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I really apologise for the thread drift again,
But I’m always astonished that someone on a F02 salary can’t make it specially with a partner working …
I guess the HKE, HKA, GBA pilots - expat cabin crew should give counselling seminar. Specially when the median salary is 20 000$ in HK
But I’m always astonished that someone on a F02 salary can’t make it specially with a partner working …
I guess the HKE, HKA, GBA pilots - expat cabin crew should give counselling seminar. Specially when the median salary is 20 000$ in HK
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It's more about the relative rather than the absolute numbers. Decreasing income, lower standard of living, smaller flats, lower saving rate, longer time to upgrade etc compared to before. In combination with previous sacrifices that come with moving abroad this is understandibly extremely frustrating. However, albeit it might look like it, it is actually not the sole responsibility or doing of one company. All this anger and fury focused at a single airline is ridiculous, especially if you look at the wages almost anywhere else. This is so much bigger. There is no right to get what we foolishly envisioned. Nobody promised us anything, it was rather wishful thinking. Face it, a lot of us made the wrong bet.
We live in a new world. Forget the past, Being a pilot is a middle income job now in most regions, for good. The expat of the future will be from lower income regions, bar the odd misguided and pityful offspring of one of us.The required level of education and language skills will be lowered further. Combined, this will open up new supply sources for airlines and keep wages low. Against current belief this trend will not result in higher accidents, technology and automation will prevent it, easily. Any job involving operating a machine will become more or less obsolete. Piloting will turn into a monitoring task, we will get near 100 % automation. SO's starting in Adelaide today might never "fly" an aircraft, even after upgrade. I think we will have a disrupting "Tesla/Chat GPT" moment in aviation, soon.
We live in a new world. Forget the past, Being a pilot is a middle income job now in most regions, for good. The expat of the future will be from lower income regions, bar the odd misguided and pityful offspring of one of us.The required level of education and language skills will be lowered further. Combined, this will open up new supply sources for airlines and keep wages low. Against current belief this trend will not result in higher accidents, technology and automation will prevent it, easily. Any job involving operating a machine will become more or less obsolete. Piloting will turn into a monitoring task, we will get near 100 % automation. SO's starting in Adelaide today might never "fly" an aircraft, even after upgrade. I think we will have a disrupting "Tesla/Chat GPT" moment in aviation, soon.
Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 13th Apr 2023 at 06:54.
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It's all about the relative change rather than the absolute numbers. Decreasing income, lower standard of living, smaller flats, lower saving rate, longer time to upgrade etc in combination with previous sacrifices that come with moving abroad. This is understandibly extremely frustrating. The problem in here however is the wrong focus of many. This is not the responsibility or doing of one company, this is so much bigger. All this anger and fury against one airline is ridiculous. There is no right to get what we foolishly envisioned of getting out of this career. Face it, we made the wrong bet.
We live in a new world. Forget the past, Being a pilot is a blue collar job now in most regions, for good. The expat of the future will be from lower income regions, bar the odd misguided and pityful offspring of one of us.The level of education of future pilots will be lower as well and combined this will open up new supply sources for airlines and keep wages low. Against current belief this trend will not result in higher accidents, technology and automation will prevent it, easily. Any job involving operating a machine will become more or less obsolete. Piloting will turn into a monitoring task, we will get near 100 % automation. SO's starting in Adelaide today might never "fly" an aircraft, even after upgrade. I think we will have a disrupting "Tesla/Chat GPT" moment in aviation, soon.
We live in a new world. Forget the past, Being a pilot is a blue collar job now in most regions, for good. The expat of the future will be from lower income regions, bar the odd misguided and pityful offspring of one of us.The level of education of future pilots will be lower as well and combined this will open up new supply sources for airlines and keep wages low. Against current belief this trend will not result in higher accidents, technology and automation will prevent it, easily. Any job involving operating a machine will become more or less obsolete. Piloting will turn into a monitoring task, we will get near 100 % automation. SO's starting in Adelaide today might never "fly" an aircraft, even after upgrade. I think we will have a disrupting "Tesla/Chat GPT" moment in aviation, soon.
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albeit true... in about 50 years maybe
there is currently no Airbus or Boeing aircraft in development that is fully automated or even (like a tesla) if an aircraft was being designed currently I'd say sure 5-10 years before rollout and testing, then another few years of that. New aircraft take decades to design, build, test etc.
So the current "Adelaide" gang, they will most likely retire in the left seat decades from now having flown plenty..
The only thing Boeing, Airbus and the likes are currently obsessed with is the woke agenda and saving emissions by going as green as they can, automation is way down the line.
With regards to salaries, they will return to previous levels in a few years time, China has been incredibly slow to get away from Covid so their financial damage is immense, once that has sorted out then things will again pick up. The Chinese (that is HK included) are painfully paranoid about Covid so don't hold your breath in 1-2 years. This will take a long time to get all those pax and cargo numbers back up but it will happen, their hands are tied from their own paranoia.. just be patient. Or maybe they'll just sell Cathay to China Airlines and we'll all get new uniforms and a new paint scheme
there is currently no Airbus or Boeing aircraft in development that is fully automated or even (like a tesla) if an aircraft was being designed currently I'd say sure 5-10 years before rollout and testing, then another few years of that. New aircraft take decades to design, build, test etc.
So the current "Adelaide" gang, they will most likely retire in the left seat decades from now having flown plenty..
The only thing Boeing, Airbus and the likes are currently obsessed with is the woke agenda and saving emissions by going as green as they can, automation is way down the line.
With regards to salaries, they will return to previous levels in a few years time, China has been incredibly slow to get away from Covid so their financial damage is immense, once that has sorted out then things will again pick up. The Chinese (that is HK included) are painfully paranoid about Covid so don't hold your breath in 1-2 years. This will take a long time to get all those pax and cargo numbers back up but it will happen, their hands are tied from their own paranoia.. just be patient. Or maybe they'll just sell Cathay to China Airlines and we'll all get new uniforms and a new paint scheme
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Nope, STW is closer to the truth. “Piloting” is a thing of the past, the last airliner we operate that you actually need to fly occasionally is the 747. Much less skill is now involved, much less previous experience, everything is increasingly automated.
Consequently the bar for entry is lowered, almost anyone can be a pilot. This translates into the profession becoming a middle-paying supervisory job.
Next on the menu (Airbus are already on it), single-pilot operations, initially in cruise, with a resulting excess in aircrew and further lowering of wages.
Full automation is actually viable today; we are living on borrowed time thanks to the inherent conservatism of regulators and the industry, and perhaps some lingering public skepticism (which will be less prevalent in the younger generations anyway as they grow up with self-driving transportation).
Wouldn’t want be be starting out in this job right now. Doubt you’d see your career out, and in any case you would be trapped in a never-ending downward spiral, but starting from much further down said spiral.
Consequently the bar for entry is lowered, almost anyone can be a pilot. This translates into the profession becoming a middle-paying supervisory job.
Next on the menu (Airbus are already on it), single-pilot operations, initially in cruise, with a resulting excess in aircrew and further lowering of wages.
Full automation is actually viable today; we are living on borrowed time thanks to the inherent conservatism of regulators and the industry, and perhaps some lingering public skepticism (which will be less prevalent in the younger generations anyway as they grow up with self-driving transportation).
Wouldn’t want be be starting out in this job right now. Doubt you’d see your career out, and in any case you would be trapped in a never-ending downward spiral, but starting from much further down said spiral.
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Nope, STW is closer to the truth. “Piloting” is a thing of the past, the last airliner we operate that you actually need to fly occasionally is the 747. Much less skill is now involved, much less previous experience, everything is increasingly automated.
Consequently the bar for entry is lowered, almost anyone can be a pilot. This translates into the profession becoming a middle-paying supervisory job.
Next on the menu (Airbus are already on it), single-pilot operations, initially in cruise, with a resulting excess in aircrew and further lowering of wages.
Full automation is actually viable today; we are living on borrowed time thanks to the inherent conservatism of regulators and the industry, and perhaps some lingering public skepticism (which will be less prevalent in the younger generations anyway as they grow up with self-driving transportation).
Wouldn’t want be be starting out in this job right now. Doubt you’d see your career out, and in any case you would be trapped in a never-ending downward spiral, but starting from much further down said spiral.
Consequently the bar for entry is lowered, almost anyone can be a pilot. This translates into the profession becoming a middle-paying supervisory job.
Next on the menu (Airbus are already on it), single-pilot operations, initially in cruise, with a resulting excess in aircrew and further lowering of wages.
Full automation is actually viable today; we are living on borrowed time thanks to the inherent conservatism of regulators and the industry, and perhaps some lingering public skepticism (which will be less prevalent in the younger generations anyway as they grow up with self-driving transportation).
Wouldn’t want be be starting out in this job right now. Doubt you’d see your career out, and in any case you would be trapped in a never-ending downward spiral, but starting from much further down said spiral.
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Reduction of compensation for pilots has had a real effect on safety margins of the airlines who have implemented it such as Emirates & cathay.
Emirates did it first a few years before cathay. Since then they've "crashed" a 777 attempting to land/go-around and almost crashed another 777 in initial takeoff phase coming as close as a couple of hundred feet from hitting buildings in DXB, their home base. Both events due to ridiculously amateurish mistakes.
Cathay has recently been having a spat of hard landings on the 747 fleet. They've had a few south Asian newhires who after having trouble in training have been found to have fake logbooks with imaginary hours in them. I remember back when they wouldn't sign you off line training unless you achieved the standard of "1500 smooth" landings consistently.
We Know how secretive both of these airlines are so be sure there's more that's being covered up.
Coincidence? No, i think cause & effect.
There's a limit on how low any bar can be lowered, before its gone too far. I'd argue it's already been lowered too far and we're all in for news of a crash or two from either or both these airlines.
On subject of single pilot and/or pilot-less airliners, Yes the militaries are already flying pilot-less aircraft. However there are no operational true pilotless aircraft as of yet. In prototype/testing phase yes, but what's operational all have a pilot operating them from the ground with no passengers onboard. Not even a single military in the world is yet taking that risk. AND... as soon as there's anything but good weather they're grounded. No operating around thunderstorms, typhoons, heavy rain, strong winds etc. like we do now. I'd like to see an airline fly with that set of operational limitations and make money.
I've yet to hear one passenger telling me they'd get on a pilot-less or for that matter "single pilot in cruise" flight. Not old ones, not young ones either. We are not anywhere near that era yet.
Worse yet if you leave the flight deck to one single pilot even just in cruise, he/she better be very good at the job, skills, experience, nerves etc. We've all seen automation fail miserably at the worst possible moments and we've had to take over manually right in the middle of the **** hitting the fan.
When you pay less, you get less. This is true about everything including pilots. They want to operate single pilot flights with the quality of pilots they're getting now? I have to laugh. They can't even get enough of those at Cathay to ramp up operation past 25% of pre-covid as it is. Emirates can't get enough pilots either or they wouldn't be on a poaching campaign on location in hk to poach directly and overtly from Cathay.
So has this gamble or strategy depending on who you ask, paid off so far? You be the judge. I'm personally watching with popcorn and laughing my ass off. These clown dirtbag outfits are intent on finding out how low is too low by finding out the hard way. They're showing no sign of stopping as of yet.
Emirates did it first a few years before cathay. Since then they've "crashed" a 777 attempting to land/go-around and almost crashed another 777 in initial takeoff phase coming as close as a couple of hundred feet from hitting buildings in DXB, their home base. Both events due to ridiculously amateurish mistakes.
Cathay has recently been having a spat of hard landings on the 747 fleet. They've had a few south Asian newhires who after having trouble in training have been found to have fake logbooks with imaginary hours in them. I remember back when they wouldn't sign you off line training unless you achieved the standard of "1500 smooth" landings consistently.
We Know how secretive both of these airlines are so be sure there's more that's being covered up.
Coincidence? No, i think cause & effect.
There's a limit on how low any bar can be lowered, before its gone too far. I'd argue it's already been lowered too far and we're all in for news of a crash or two from either or both these airlines.
On subject of single pilot and/or pilot-less airliners, Yes the militaries are already flying pilot-less aircraft. However there are no operational true pilotless aircraft as of yet. In prototype/testing phase yes, but what's operational all have a pilot operating them from the ground with no passengers onboard. Not even a single military in the world is yet taking that risk. AND... as soon as there's anything but good weather they're grounded. No operating around thunderstorms, typhoons, heavy rain, strong winds etc. like we do now. I'd like to see an airline fly with that set of operational limitations and make money.
I've yet to hear one passenger telling me they'd get on a pilot-less or for that matter "single pilot in cruise" flight. Not old ones, not young ones either. We are not anywhere near that era yet.
Worse yet if you leave the flight deck to one single pilot even just in cruise, he/she better be very good at the job, skills, experience, nerves etc. We've all seen automation fail miserably at the worst possible moments and we've had to take over manually right in the middle of the **** hitting the fan.
When you pay less, you get less. This is true about everything including pilots. They want to operate single pilot flights with the quality of pilots they're getting now? I have to laugh. They can't even get enough of those at Cathay to ramp up operation past 25% of pre-covid as it is. Emirates can't get enough pilots either or they wouldn't be on a poaching campaign on location in hk to poach directly and overtly from Cathay.
So has this gamble or strategy depending on who you ask, paid off so far? You be the judge. I'm personally watching with popcorn and laughing my ass off. These clown dirtbag outfits are intent on finding out how low is too low by finding out the hard way. They're showing no sign of stopping as of yet.
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I'd say we are really not too far from getting replaced. The last FON issued by our company mentioned something about SOs needing to "practice" a depressurization scenario while alone in the cockpit. If that's not already a huge red flag then I'm not sure what will be.
I'd say we are really not too far from getting replaced. The last FON issued by our company mentioned something about SOs needing to "practice" a depressurization scenario while alone in the cockpit. If that's not already a huge red flag then I'm not sure what will be.
