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RIP. Lets not let CX sweep this one under the rug

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

RIP. Lets not let CX sweep this one under the rug

Old 9th Sep 2022, 05:49
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RIP. Lets not let CX sweep this one under the rug

This week one of our own took his life in HK.
I'm shocked how something so massive can be passed over and the same day news pumped out instead about how we are hiring 700 cadets instead.
What ever was happening in personal life it can be assured that stressors were amplified 100x by being a pilot who had undertaken multiple closed loops and countless days of quarantine and hotel ISOLATION.
Is this even going to get mentioned by the company, bar a short impersonal email from GMA? When a pilot passes away from illness we are issued a FON about it yet in this circumstance it is hidden under a rug no doubt so the company can distance its self from having any guilt for what many said was a certain eventuality as to what results when you push push push push and at the same time take take take from your employees.
Mental health is a very real risk and more dangerous now than COVID for our pilots so this should not be a taboo subject. Guys on the line are really reaching the end of their wick, I don't recall any time we got good news or any hope of improvements in the future.
No job is worth it guys, take the stress leave, call sick or just quit if need be.
Cheek in on your mates because the company or gov don't have your back we need to check on each other.
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Old 9th Sep 2022, 06:09
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Originally Posted by woke2022 View Post
This week one of our own took his life in HK.
I'm shocked how something so massive can be passed over and the same day news pumped out instead about how we are hiring 700 cadets instead.
What ever was happening in personal life it can be assured that stressors were amplified 100x by being a pilot who had undertaken multiple closed loops and countless days of quarantine and hotel ISOLATION.
Is this even going to get mentioned by the company, bar a short impersonal email from GMA? When a pilot passes away from illness we are issued a FON about it yet in this circumstance it is hidden under a rug no doubt so the company can distance its self from having any guilt for what many said was a certain eventuality as to what results when you push push push push and at the same time take take take from your employees.
Mental health is a very real risk and more dangerous now than COVID for our pilots so this should not be a taboo subject. Guys on the line are really reaching the end of their wick, I don't recall any time we got good news or any hope of improvements in the future.
No job is worth it guys, take the stress leave, call sick or just quit if need be.
Cheek in on your mates because the company or gov don't have your back we need to check on each other.
Did you expect more from CX? When people are screaming for help, they tend to threaten them with their job. They don’t care, as long as their show remains on the road. This extends from Management to the fleet office.

I would not be surprised if they asked for payment to repatriate his remains.

I extend my condolences to his family and apologise for what has happened, no one in this industry deserves to be put in this position by either the company or the government to the extent that the only way they feel there is an out is death.
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Old 9th Sep 2022, 06:27
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Unbelievably sad, a vibrant personality and great pilot with his whole life ahead of him. Irrespective of the circumstances, very sad to see CX has barely acknowledged but completely unsurprising. TB and co too concerned with the new 1000 cadets.

Additionally calls from the Union for PAN/EAP are really baseless as the person often won’t seek help or doesn’t confide in people before it’s too late.

Only thing really to say is look out for your friends and colleagues, really the last and often only line of defence.

RIP
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Old 9th Sep 2022, 06:39
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In today's teams meeting GMA made it very clear there would be no change to the transition to POS18 housing, expressed no concern about attrition rate, but was excited by the coming recruitment to meet growing operation next year. Made passing mention that pilot welfare was important. Not a word about the three pilots who have died in the last week.

So, the management are locked into POS18, don't give a shit about the employees and think they will be able to recruit their way out of this.
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Old 9th Sep 2022, 07:32
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Yes a tragic event no matter which way you look at it.

I think controlledrest put it appropriately in another thread that the reality is this:


The board have decided on POS18. RH and GMA are implementing it and more. All departments are encouraged to treat aircrew (front and rear) like shit. The company now has a cheap workforce and the ability to change all conditions as they see fit. They don't care about how much money could be made in the short term, the board is looking far further out than that.

Even if we were the right size for all the demand that will occur when the borders open, you won't get any of the rewards - do you remember when CX made record profits but it wasn't enough to trigger a profit share?

So the best way to manage your relationship with the company is to work when it suits you, make the most of your days off and plan your exit.

Well said +1
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Old 9th Sep 2022, 07:45
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3 pilots this week? Wow
What a disgrace the company can't talk about this
Media where are you? SCMP are in cx pocket how about bloomberg? DL now would be a great time for some media highlighting the very real stress we are operating under and what the results can be.
All of this is far more dangerous than Covid itself
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Old 9th Sep 2022, 09:26
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How tragic. It´s a sick company - Cathay Pathetic Airways. Sick, sick, sick.
I do remember how Gary Tony Penny (EX Airbus manager of some pathetic kind back around 2008) was an A-hole when my Grand Mother had fallen seriously sick. I had just completed day one of A330 landing base training in Zhuhai, and we had the airplane available for a second day of base training - if we wanted/needed it (we choose not too!). The ex Cathay manager thought it was more important to remain in HK and consider doing another day of base training! I disagreed with the clown, called sick and flew back home. [email protected] him. My Grand Mother passed away while I was on the flight heading home. About a year later I resigned from this pathetic "airline" - I feel sorry for the bunch that are still left with this company after all these years! Yikes.

My condolences to the families.
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Old 9th Sep 2022, 11:17
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3 pilots? Can someone confirm this? If not names, maybe generally circumstances and how they passed?

We all know something has to break in this situation cathay has created out of covid madness of silly land called hong kong. Its so sad its not cathay that breaks first, instead of out very dear friends and colleagues we have so many memories with.

This has to be made public news. Cathay shares are rising. At the cost of their long time loyal pilots literally dying of suicide and stress under pressure of having their livelihoods cut in half and working under conditions exponentially worse than ever before. You don't have to be genius to know in what mental health shape they all are.

Do the shareholders of cathay pacific realize what blood they have on their hands hoping to take advantage of this situation? Is this a healthy company worth having shares of? Forget about any ethics or decency in stock holders. But how can you justify buying stock in a company this fundamentally unhealthy in a business sense. They're ready to implode when flying demand comes back in a hurry at some point and they have just a fraction of qualified pilots to fly their airplanes. Losing long held money maker slots and being forced to shrink the airline down to a fraction of size because they can't operate anything more than a skeleton operation.

1000 cadets is what they are betting on. Same kind of cadets who will need at least 2-3 years before they can qualify only to be second officers not yet qualified to fly the airplane limited to in-flight admin and air traffic control communications type of duties. It takes 3-4 years for each one of them to become at least a first officer qualified to fly the airplane. Cathay has never had nor does it now have the training capacity to train more than a couple of hundred in a year. It would take cathay years and billions to create a big enough training department to handle the numbers they need to replace what is lost in pilot workforce.

Meanwhile they've bled away at least 1/3 of their most experienced pilots so far and bleeding more every month. Many still on the seniority list and on stress related sick leave are never coming back to work either. So don't think seniority list tells the total amount of pilots left at Cathay.

The board of directors has been for some time panicking about the lack of pilots to even expand a few percent flights back up being told by planning department "cannot, not enough pilots, cannot".

This is a company you buy stocks in? You must be a special kind of stupid.

I wish AOA had a public relations department. What a pathetic waste of oxygen of a pilot association.
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Old 9th Sep 2022, 11:33
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Originally Posted by woke2022 View Post
3 pilots this week? Wow
What a disgrace the company can't talk about this
Media where are you? SCMP are in cx pocket how about bloomberg? DL now would be a great time for some media highlighting the very real stress we are operating under and what the results can be.
All of this is far more dangerous than Covid itself
Al - Jazeera loves these stories!
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Old 9th Sep 2022, 12:11
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Originally Posted by VforVENDETTA View Post
3 pilots? Can someone confirm this? If not names, maybe generally circumstances and how they passed?

We all know something has to break in this situation cathay has created out of covid madness of silly land called hong kong. Its so sad its not cathay that breaks first, instead of out very dear friends and colleagues we have so many memories with.

This has to be made public news. Cathay shares are rising. At the cost of their long time loyal pilots literally dying of suicide and stress under pressure of having their livelihoods cut in half and working under conditions exponentially worse than ever before. You don't have to be genius to know in what mental health shape they all are.

Do the shareholders of cathay pacific realize what blood they have on their hands hoping to take advantage of this situation? Is this a healthy company worth having shares of? Forget about any ethics or decency in stock holders. But how can you justify buying stock in a company this fundamentally unhealthy in a business sense. They're ready to implode when flying demand comes back in a hurry at some point and they have just a fraction of qualified pilots to fly their airplanes. Losing long held money maker slots and being forced to shrink the airline down to a fraction of size because they can't operate anything more than a skeleton operation.

1000 cadets is what they are betting on. Same kind of cadets who will need at least 2-3 years before they can qualify only to be second officers not yet qualified to fly the airplane limited to in-flight admin and air traffic control communications type of duties. It takes 3-4 years for each one of them to become at least a first officer qualified to fly the airplane. Cathay has never had nor does it now have the training capacity to train more than a couple of hundred in a year. It would take cathay years and billions to create a big enough training department to handle the numbers they need to replace what is lost in pilot workforce.

Meanwhile they've bled away at least 1/3 of their most experienced pilots so far and bleeding more every month. Many still on the seniority list and on stress related sick leave are never coming back to work either. So don't think seniority list tells the total amount of pilots left at Cathay.

The board of directors has been for some time panicking about the lack of pilots to even expand a few percent flights back up being told by planning department "cannot, not enough pilots, cannot".

This is a company you buy stocks in? You must be a special kind of stupid.

I wish AOA had a public relations department. What a pathetic waste of oxygen of a pilot association.
One heart attack last week on returning to Australia after completing double closed loop
One jumping off a roof top in central on Sunday
not sure about a third
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Old 10th Sep 2022, 01:42
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For pilots considering joining CX, the truth is, CX has perfected the following:
1) Working pilots under varying contracts where they can add and take away whatever they desire (POS18).
2) Able to trade your freedoms for the “greater good” of the company (Isolation in outports).
3) Threaten the livelihoods of their crew if one dares whisper stress leave or long term sick leave (Wanting to see your family overseas that you haven’t seen in 3 years)
4) Creating a “user- pays” economy by making crew pay to attend simulator sessions and store their things.

I’m waiting for the day they tell us that Dry Cleaning is no longer covered for our uniforms but they’ll offer us 50% discount at Vogue laundry.

Last edited by Babyjet_dododo; 10th Sep 2022 at 02:44.
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Old 10th Sep 2022, 03:48
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The third was a guy in the UK. CX don't count that one as he was no longer an employee, so he matters even less to them.
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Old 10th Sep 2022, 05:19
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Originally Posted by Babyjet_dododo View Post
I’m waiting for the day they tell us that Dry Cleaning is no longer covered for our uniforms but they’ll offer us 50% discount at Vogue laundry.
You give this company too much credit. 50% is generous. I digress.

More importantly, a sad loss for our community and indeed for their Families and Friends. Heartfelt condolences to all. May their memories never be forgotten.
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Old 10th Sep 2022, 07:05
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Today is “World Suicide Prevention Day” September 10th

And not a peep from our corporate spinmasters. Shameful.

https://www.rethink.org/get-involved...revention-day/



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Old 10th Sep 2022, 07:14
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Cathay has blood on their hands. They will go down in history as by far the most mischievous and abhorrant employer in the aviation world.

Shame on them. And the deaths, divorces, depressions they have caused.

Completely dispicable, hateful, toxic employer.

I have no doubt that the toxic archetects of these schemes will be pointed in a certain direction at the pearly gates - straight to HELL! And I will rejoice when they do.

GO TO HELL AND ROT, CATHAY MANAGEMENT.
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Old 10th Sep 2022, 07:22
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I hope everyone here knows that the second death was not a suicide, but a heart attack at a young age of 50. Haven't heard anything about a ex-uk base death at all yet.
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Old 10th Sep 2022, 08:22
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Suicide , heart attack what ever it is . That stress caused from putting up with the pressure Cathay are putting you under right now are not worth it
how many of you are going to look back on your death beds and be reflecting that you are happy you did that extra closed loop to get that extra 10k whilst going another year without watching your kids grow up
life is so so precious, don’t waste it on helping these clowns stay in business
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Old 10th Sep 2022, 10:37
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Irrelevant really. It’s two deaths. One whilst the young man (50) was on stress leave. And the conditions that these individuals have had to put up with must have had some bearing. And this is only the stuff we’re hearing about.
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Old 10th Sep 2022, 15:31
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Originally Posted by Flying Clog View Post
Cathay has blood on their hands. They will go down in history as by far the most mischievous and abhorrant employer in the aviation world.

Shame on them. And the deaths, divorces, depressions they have caused.

Completely dispicable, hateful, toxic employer.

I have no doubt that the toxic archetects of these schemes will be pointed in a certain direction at the pearly gates - straight to HELL! And I will rejoice when they do.

GO TO HELL AND ROT, CATHAY MANAGEMENT.
You might benefit from some anger management classes.
And learn some meditation techniques, let this s**t go, get on with your life.
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Old 10th Sep 2022, 22:29
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woke2022,

I have had similar thoughts with regards to the magnification our draconian working and living conditions have on what is going on in our personal lives. Many of these stressors have been influenced by COS18, which isn’t fully implemented for all crew yet. So more financial hurt to come for some of us.

CX treatment of crew and the HK conditions are a recipe for suicide.

After mulling this news for a few days and also thinking of many comments and actions from the company in recent years in particular, I have come to the conclusion;

Cathay Pacific do not care about your mental health, they do not care about the HK imposed working restrictions as long as the operation continues. They do not care if you die. That is purely an inconvenience.

COSDO, DFO and GMA all have blood on their hands over this. I really do believe that.
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