Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

All is good now

Old 6th Jan 2022, 04:36
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All is good now

Today we receive emails of thanks from Kempis and Tang. 'Thanks' from these two only makes matters whose for all the front line staff who are suffering under the current work conditions. Many of these conditions could be much improved if the company actually cared about the staff.

The recent rebranding from Cathay Pacific to Cathay is just another indication that we work for a new company which is just another corporate where staff come last.
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 05:15
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Originally Posted by controlledrest View Post
Today we receive emails of thanks from Kempis and Tang. 'Thanks' from these two only makes matters whose for all the front line staff who are suffering under the current work conditions. Many of these conditions could be much improved if the company actually cared about the staff.

The recent rebranding from Cathay Pacific to Cathay is just another indication that we work for a new company which is just another corporate where staff come last.
wait..what? It’s taken you this long to figure this out?
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 09:40
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I really enjoyed reading the email that pilots who go in the loop earn 65-85% more than non closed loop pilots. So in other words, the more you deprive yourself from family, exercise, sun and fresh air you will make a lot of money.

When the world is moving to a more work-lifestyle balance type of employment for the same pay, CX is going back to the cotton fields mentality
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 11:42
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Originally Posted by Jnr380 View Post
I really enjoyed reading the email that pilots who go in the loop earn 65-85% more than non closed loop pilots. So in other words, the more you deprive yourself from family, exercise, sun and fresh air you will make a lot of money.

When the world is moving to a more work-lifestyle balance type of employment for the same pay, CX is going back to the cotton fields mentality

There's a 3 word expression in Germany for that....very popular in the 1930s.
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 12:31
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I can’t believe anyone is still working for them. There is a life away from aviation… and it’s good.
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 13:55
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Given that we’re all going to get infected with omicron, anyone with a family still in HKG and still going to work is basically negligent wrt the welfare of said family.

You’re basically guaranteeing that your family is going to Penny Bay, or worse. I have no idea how any individual can justify that.

Then there’s the other end with people saying they haven’t seen their family in 18 months or longer. One guy said he hasn’t seen his kids that are under 2 for most of their lives. What kind of psychosis do you have to be in to do that? We’re not at war, this isn’t a cause worth paying that price. You can support your family in your home country by getting a job there. Doesn’t have to be in aviation.

There is absolutely nothing worth missing the first years, or any of the formative years in year long stretches, of your child’s life outside of a scenario like ww2. You sacrifice that experience to work for CX under the current conditions snd pay? You need your head read.

I guarantee in 10 years or less, you’ll be living with enormous regret. Step back, take a look at what you’re doing, and reassess your actions.
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 14:48
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Originally Posted by ron burgandy View Post
Given that we’re all going to get infected with omicron, anyone with a family still in HKG and still going to work is basically negligent wrt the welfare of said family.

You’re basically guaranteeing that your family is going to Penny Bay, or worse. I have no idea how any individual can justify that.

Then there’s the other end with people saying they haven’t seen their family in 18 months or longer. One guy said he hasn’t seen his kids that are under 2 for most of their lives. What kind of psychosis do you have to be in to do that? We’re not at war, this isn’t a cause worth paying that price. You can support your family in your home country by getting a job there. Doesn’t have to be in aviation.

There is absolutely nothing worth missing the first years, or any of the formative years in year long stretches, of your child’s life outside of a scenario like ww2. You sacrifice that experience to work for CX under the current conditions snd pay? You need your head read.

I guarantee in 10 years or less, you’ll be living with enormous regret. Step back, take a look at what you’re doing, and reassess your actions.

And that Ron, is pretty classy. And every word the truth
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 19:17
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Wise words Ron.
Dont forget that while also missing significant time/events with your loved ones, you are also sacrificing your own life whilst in isolation/quarantine/etc. There are only a limited number of seasons available to us all in this life.
Maybe it would still be a worthwhile trade off on the old pay scales, but certainly not on the new low remuneration. Having spent many years commuting, I have first hand experience of the trade offs.
I left CX last year and have reclaimed my life in my domicile actually living with my family and working in my own country. Yes, it has had its tough times, but nothing like what CX pilots/families are enduring in HK now.
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Old 7th Jan 2022, 02:04
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Cathay Goldern Year South China Sea Airlines
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Old 7th Jan 2022, 03:06
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Great post ron burgandy

Yet you still see captains asking all these questions about closed loops and money. I actually cant believe my eyes! These are the guys that are complaining about being apart from families, having not seen the for over a year? This is absolutely unbelievable! Shameful!

I would absolutely never put my family through this. You are causing your own problems, so you deal with them. Just don't start complaining when you test positive and end up in North Lantau prison!
This is all a big joke.
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Old 7th Jan 2022, 04:08
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Guardian had an interesting article on how lockdown had impacted those who identify with their job more than those who have a more balanced life. If your identity is wrapped up in being a big jet skipper - and it is something you worked for for 25 years+ to get, very hard to walk away.
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Old 7th Jan 2022, 04:47
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Originally Posted by Freehills View Post
Guardian had an interesting article on how lockdown had impacted those who identify with their job more than those who have a more balanced life. If your identity is wrapped up in being a big jet skipper - and it is something you worked for for 25 years+ to get, very hard to walk away.
some of us were pushed out……
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Old 7th Jan 2022, 05:11
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From a former skipper that was “given a sign a turd or get sacked” no amount of money is worth putting up with that sort of behaviour. Particularly after vesting 30 plus years in aviation and ten before CX.
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Old 7th Jan 2022, 05:40
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Originally Posted by ron burgandy View Post
Given that we’re all going to get infected with omicron, anyone with a family still in HKG and still going to work is basically negligent wrt the welfare of said family.

You’re basically guaranteeing that your family is going to Penny Bay, or worse. I have no idea how any individual can justify that.

Then there’s the other end with people saying they haven’t seen their family in 18 months or longer. One guy said he hasn’t seen his kids that are under 2 for most of their lives. What kind of psychosis do you have to be in to do that? We’re not at war, this isn’t a cause worth paying that price. You can support your family in your home country by getting a job there. Doesn’t have to be in aviation.

There is absolutely nothing worth missing the first years, or any of the formative years in year long stretches, of your child’s life outside of a scenario like ww2. You sacrifice that experience to work for CX under the current conditions snd pay? You need your head read.

I guarantee in 10 years or less, you’ll be living with enormous regret. Step back, take a look at what you’re doing, and reassess your actions.
Absolutely spot on! Best post I have read on PPRuNe ever I think. I did one closed loop last year in the hope that it would help Cathay claw its way out despite the fact we’d been handed POS18. My family were out of Hong Kong, no prospect of seeing them, basically I was experiencing everything Ron had mentioned. I pulled the plug, took the VSS and started a new life. I miss the flying as an aviator, I have moments of regret, but I can tell you this…it is hands down the best decision I have ever made in my life. Those doing the closed loop etc, it’s difficult to picture what life would be like, but once you have pulled the plug, you suddenly realise how insanely good life actually is outside of Cathay.
I had an amazing time at Cathay and am grateful for everything. Unfortunately when Thompson, Kempis and Co started playing with toys they had no idea how to operate, the legacy was done.

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Old 7th Jan 2022, 07:15
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Originally Posted by Joe Ma Se View Post
Absolutely spot on! Best post I have read on PPRuNe ever I think. I did one closed loop last year in the hope that it would help Cathay claw its way out despite the fact we’d been handed POS18. My family were out of Hong Kong, no prospect of seeing them, basically I was experiencing everything Ron had mentioned. I pulled the plug, took the VSS and started a new life. I miss the flying as an aviator, I have moments of regret, but I can tell you this…it is hands down the best decision I have ever made in my life. Those doing the closed loop etc, it’s difficult to picture what life would be like, but once you have pulled the plug, you suddenly realise how insanely good life actually is outside of Cathay.
I had an amazing time at Cathay and am grateful for everything. Unfortunately when Thompson, Kempis and Co started playing with toys they had no idea how to operate, the legacy was done.

Yep, a strong rumour floating around suggesting another round of VSS will be handed out in March of this year if things do not improve (which they wont) followed by redundancies if there is not enough volunteers. I'm ready to sign and move on. There is more to life than sitting in a open air prison, just to jump into a jet and fly halfway across the world to be subject to more inhumane conditions at the request of the HK GOV (rinse and repeat).

To all the budding CX wannabes out there, you have been warned, if you think things will go back to normal soon-ish, Were at least several years away from "Normal", as stated by the GMO. People are not leaving for the fun of it, they're leaving to regain a sense of normality for themselves and their family.
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Old 7th Jan 2022, 08:40
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Originally Posted by ron burgandy View Post
...........Then there’s the other end with people saying they haven’t seen their family in 18 months or longer. One guy said he hasn’t seen his kids that are under 2 for most of their lives. What kind of psychosis do you have to be in to do that? We’re not at war, this isn’t a cause worth paying that price. You can support your family in your home country by getting a job there. Doesn’t have to be in aviation.

There is absolutely nothing worth missing the first years, or any of the formative years in year long stretches, of your child’s life outside of a scenario like ww2. You sacrifice that experience to work for CX under the current conditions snd pay? You need your head read.

I guarantee in 10 years or less, you’ll be living with enormous regret. Step back, take a look at what you’re doing, and reassess your actions.
Absolutely correct. DO NOT SACRIFICE YOURSELF OR YOUR FAMILY, (sorry to shout, but this is really important).

Missing your children's early years is literally life changing. You will never get that time back, nor will they.

Their innocence, their fascination and wonder. Reading them a bed-time story etc. Absolutely priceless, don't squander it for a crappy job, it really is not worth it, by any measure.
No matter if you have to stop flying, it is really important that you are at home during your children's early years.
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Old 7th Jan 2022, 08:40
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Originally Posted by Jnr380 View Post
Were at least several years away from "Normal", as stated by the GMO.
And don't forget that's the "new" normal, not the very desirable normal of 30 years ago, the quite acceptable normal of 15 years ago or the barely tolerable normal of 3 years ago.
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Old 7th Jan 2022, 09:20
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Great post

Originally Posted by ron burgandy View Post
Given that we’re all going to get infected with omicron, anyone with a family still in HKG and still going to work is basically negligent wrt the welfare of said family.

You’re basically guaranteeing that your family is going to Penny Bay, or worse. I have no idea how any individual can justify that.

Then there’s the other end with people saying they haven’t seen their family in 18 months or longer. One guy said he hasn’t seen his kids that are under 2 for most of their lives. What kind of psychosis do you have to be in to do that? We’re not at war, this isn’t a cause worth paying that price. You can support your family in your home country by getting a job there. Doesn’t have to be in aviation.

There is absolutely nothing worth missing the first years, or any of the formative years in year long stretches, of your child’s life outside of a scenario like ww2. You sacrifice that experience to work for CX under the current conditions snd pay? You need your head read.

I guarantee in 10 years or less, you’ll be living with enormous regret. Step back, take a look at what you’re doing, and reassess your actions.
I just came on to see how life was in HKG - I miss my ID90 short trips over there from DXB - and I find the best post ever on PPRuNe.
​​​​​Thanks Ron
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Old 7th Jan 2022, 12:22
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A few weeks ago Cafay stated they would be prepering to hire crew in 2022... now they actually advertise they hiring a sim instructor. So out of the remaining pilot group there is no one qualified and in all seriousness... who would be thinkong to move to HKG for a sim instructor job nowadays? Why would they not hire ex Dragon instead?

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Old 7th Jan 2022, 12:30
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CX Sim instructors aren’t line crew, FYI. It is a full time position.
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