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Heads up (or down)

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Heads up (or down)

Old 20th Nov 2021, 07:01
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: DB
Posts: 1
Heads up (or down)

Hearing from a believable source that there will be fallout from 'Frankfurt.' Rumour is of a historic investigation into flightdeck nightstops (pax and freighter) at random ports over the last few months. Source has had to explain certain expenditures. Nothing more at this stage, but its highly likely this is not just company. Be careful.
Noonday Gurn is offline  
Old 20th Nov 2021, 12:54
  #2 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Here and Everywhere
Posts: 207
Hey while they’re at it, they’ll rope all the banks to provide every single foreign transaction made by aircrew in the interest of “public safety”
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Old 20th Nov 2021, 16:27
  #3 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: cloudcuckooland
Posts: 179
CX must be themselves. Because if it happens again then it will mandatory 2 weeks quarantine for ALL crew that does ANY layover. Which will cease operations. Happy days ahead.
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Old 21st Nov 2021, 06:43
  #4 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
Posts: 262
You've got a real point there, thank for that write-up.
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Old 21st Nov 2021, 06:58
  #5 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Shh..
Posts: 91
Can someone tell me how many times was the particular big bank Chief's nose being swabbed to be able to skip quarantine?
Unless one is in a PPE the whole time throughout the journey to the airport and flight, how would we know every single person around him has no covid?
What has the size of the bank got to do with his immunity against covid?
carolknows is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2021, 08:05
  #6 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: HKG
Posts: 332

An easy fix:

Give the crew who have been working in the loops 4 months of G days. Encourage them to go to their home countries and families if they want.

Reactivate the crew who aren't working and give them all Temp Bases.

Reading the posts here and on yammer (before they are censored) makes it clear we are close to a tipping point and need a big reset.
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Old 21st Nov 2021, 09:09
  #7 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Here
Age: 39
Posts: 7
and who is this reliable source? Name them please.
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Old 21st Nov 2021, 09:59
  #8 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bottom of the Harbour
Posts: 340
I think the CX head of Occupational Health needs to stand up or step down.

She has been good at implementing D&A programs with no regard to assistance programs. Time to step up and manage mental wellbeing, rather than become a messenger for the CHP. Might be a task too big based on her history.

It's easy to implement a program, rather than manage a program that will have fallout.

She will action the demand of the government/company and CAD at their beheath.
KABOY is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2021, 10:32
  #9 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Wan Chai
Posts: 309

But remember that the PAN is always available. Your friendly peer support officers are "trained" to deal with it all. I see one on Instagram sponsoring her posts all the time. It's nice to see someone getting out the message that she is there to help.

Just remember they are a "Safe Harbour"

If in doubt... Call the PAN HK!
Rie is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2021, 13:56
  #10 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
Posts: 262
The whole ‘mental health is important to us’ mantra is purely lip service in my opinion.

Always watch what someone does, not what they say…

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Old 21st Nov 2021, 21:10
  #11 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Between a rock and a hard place
Posts: 1,141
Sorry to stick my nose in, I am an outsider but sneak into Fragrant Harbour sometimes for amusement
Now it seems someone got sacked for leaving their hotel room on a layover, is that right?

Would someone care to explain in simple terms what restrictions you're under as flight crew exercising your duty?
- What can you/can't you do on layovers?
- What happens when you get back to HK following a trip?

Sounds draconian from what I read, but then I am not sure I always follow?
Been out of work for a year. I miss flying a bit but if what I gather is true I wouldn't want to get back.
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Old 21st Nov 2021, 21:42
  #12 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Wan Chai
Posts: 309
Your layover starts day one of duty when you head to Cathay City to gain clinical depression. It ends 5 weeks later when you walk out of the Tung Chung Four Points and have a tear in your eye that you can once again breathe the fresh air of China.

You are not allowed to leave your room, you are allowed to watch tv, shower, eat. Maybe just maybe you’ll get enough internet connection to be able to stream something.

When you get back to Hong Kong you get to make love to a Cotton Tip. If this is ok then you get to go back into solitary confinement. If it is not ok then you get thrown into the Lantau Hospital and once you are good then you spend another 14 days in confinement. If any of the people you have worked with in the last 21 days have an issue then you get the pleasure of staying in a luxury hotel next to Disneyland.
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Old 21st Nov 2021, 22:09
  #13 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: On a few nerves apparently
Posts: 8
Hk and laws in one sentence is such an ironic joke. There is not a single law in hk that I can't personally show you examples of of it being broken egregiously all the time. Hk has always been that way since its inception. It's all always been for show. Especially if you're rich, you're allowed to get around all of it. Corruption in all things in a core fabric of life in hk.

So excuse my laughing when i hear the indignation of some saying oh you didn't follow the law so now you deserve bad things...

The amount of laws broken every day that I have and continue to see every day (and night) is staggering. And that's just me one person.

ALL of the covid rules and restrictions put in place in hk since the beginning and thu the entire set of changes implemented, ALL of it has been completely disregarded without slowing down of much of it. Underground secret parties, old ladies dance parties with their jogolos, rich individuals coming and going thru hk without any test or quarantine whatsoever at will, certain clubs packed past capacity music banging loud nobody wearing masks people sharing drinks yelling and speaking to others an inch away from their face way past the curfew closing time and police walking just outside never walking up the escalator to check anything about where all the loud noise is coming from. Or certain bars packed full of people pretending to be closed with squads of police walking the street outside forcing people to go home pretending they dont know this place is packed beyond capacity while apparently everyone else knows exactly what's going on. They have always selectively ignored certain establishments... I wonder how much they get paid to look the other way $$$

I know because I've seen all this first hand on a regular basis. And no, i haven't been flying all this time.

An actress allowed so publicly to come and be on the street shopping or shooting a movie without a mask the next day, no quarantine, no 28 days of testing, nothing. With that display hk government gave up any pretence of the BS they're always so full of.

So it's laughable to say oh hk laws you must respect authori-tie. Laws of hk? Very funny.

Last edited by VforVENDETTA; 23rd Nov 2021 at 22:19.
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Old 22nd Nov 2021, 19:17
  #14 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Between a rock and a hard place
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Your layover starts day one of duty when you head to Cathay City to gain clinical depression. It ends 5 weeks later when you walk out of the Tung Chung Four Points and have a tear in your eye that you can once again breathe the fresh air of China.
Thanks for that! Unbelievable. I guess it goes without saying you are totally isolated from your family in that period of time? How much time off then, before next round of 5 weeks of prison?
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Old 22nd Nov 2021, 20:29
  #15 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
Posts: 262
Over that time period, your youngest learned to walk, your oldest lost a tooth, and your wife started sleeping with the tv-repairman.

You walk to the edge of the road to flag down a taxi, only to find out that no-one will pick you up, as pedestrians walk around you with a wide berth.
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Old 23rd Nov 2021, 01:13
  #16 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: FL310
Posts: 58
Stop volunteering then you fools FFS
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Old 24th Nov 2021, 02:07
  #17 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: 43N
Posts: 144

This was shocking

「Whilst it was envisaged pilots would only undertake one loop consisting of 5-6 weeks continuous isolation duty, followed by two weeks off. Several pilots are currently on their 5th closed loop and have conducted over 200 days of solitary confinement isolation this year alone. No fresh air or outside exercise on those days confined, eating only what’s on limited offer.」

Are you saying there are pilots who for 200 days have not seen anything but hotel rooms, then transport to an airport for a flight and back to hotel room and nothing else for months? Did they have access to outdoor exercise on some of the layovers? This would be akin to flight in a space capsule. But one would be regularly monitored by medical experts in that case. My very first experience with strict room lockdown in 2020 was three nights Radisson BLUE SYD and I thought I would go nuts. Watching hours of government deliberations on Australian tv it was pointed out that prisoners in Victoria jails are legally entitled to regular fresh air and exercise. I ended myself up dehydrated as I was trying to stretch my water supply... Bad idea. Most of our international layovers are nothing like this and we have run of the hotel if not full freedoms now.

I have done 15 nights straight to get into Thailand but at that time allowed one hour poolside relaxation per day after the first 4 or 5 days. The fact that they are now open for vaccinated tourists even with preflight PCR and one more arrival test proves there is no basis to continue these harsh lockdowns.

Madness and unsustainable.

Last edited by Koan; 24th Nov 2021 at 08:11.
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Old 24th Nov 2021, 05:55
  #18 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 11
Yes, Gardner is saying that. And there is no outdoor exercise.
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Old 24th Nov 2021, 09:04
  #19 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Wan Chai
Posts: 309
Well on paper there was no outdoor exercise...

Now with the meeting of the two systems last week and another one planned for tomorrow anything could happen. Apparently the north isn't quite happy with the crew arrangements. Could end up changing even for freighters overnight.
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Old 24th Nov 2021, 10:34
  #20 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bottom of the Harbour
Posts: 340
1) financial desperation - due the imposed permanent contract changes.
2) fear - loss of livelihood
Volunteering for incarceration?

Shouldn’t that now question their livelihood/ financial situation?

‘Yes your honor, I shall offer my incarceration in return for your compensation.’

CX pilots are now operating under duress, will this stand up in a court? The last time this happened saw a truck driver on murder charges. You can’t operate heavy machinery when your physical/ mental ability is impaired.

This is what you are saying about CX closed loop pilots?

Think it’s time for the manager of occupational health to identify individuals not suitable. Little bit like all the other tests you do, ask her to help out, I’m sure she will listen.

Her job shouldn’t just be about terminating staff, but reviewing their welfare.

Last edited by KABOY; 24th Nov 2021 at 19:55.
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