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Hong Kong to Further Tighten Quarantine Requirements.

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Hong Kong to Further Tighten Quarantine Requirements.

Old 10th Nov 2021, 06:05
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: York International
Posts: 667
Rie. FZ, Fly Dubai?
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Old 10th Nov 2021, 06:50
  #22 (permalink)  
Rie
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Wan Chai
Posts: 256
Yes, flydubai. Most expats with children have worked out they would rather afford education and food rather than stick around and let their sprog turn into a tankie.
Rie is offline  
Old 10th Nov 2021, 10:00
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: 3.5 from TD
Age: 45
Posts: 1,030
I hate to point out the elephant standing on top of you, but all those crew who tested positive where vaccinated. I know, that inconvenient thing called facts.

If anything, these positives might deter those holding out from getting the vaccine.

Probably a lot more positives coming up, so hopefully it gets bad enough that they give up their moronic zero COVID strategy. A bit like leaving the house on a rainy day and expect to remain 100% dry.
Sqwak7700 is offline  
Old 10th Nov 2021, 12:11
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: usa
Posts: 15
So closed loop for everyone? Guess the 747 wasn't the best idea!
Got the rating, get to fly the queen of the skies, then get to leave with no training bond

Everyone should be trying to get on the 747, a big cargo company in Europe are needing pilots shortly.
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Old 10th Nov 2021, 15:24
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 103
I'm not certain, but I don't think they need you to "sign" anything. They just announce the changes now....no contract, just company policy
mngmt mole is offline  
Old 10th Nov 2021, 15:38
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Vietnam
Posts: 58
Hong Kong is now effectively the Gucci version of North Korea.
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Old 10th Nov 2021, 18:47
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki
Age: 46
Posts: 64
All the Euro(licensed) 747 jockeys got hired in the EU . 777 guys are now scrambling to convert their 777 ratings to 747’s. No money in freight.
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Old 10th Nov 2021, 22:43
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 99
When the 747 operation provides less than 20% of the company revenue on a good year, then just right now with the bleeding of cash by the pax fleet, there is no money in freight. Not enough to save the airline in it's present form anyway. COP about to drop off as freight rates drop. So basically 100+ aircraft and 1800+ crew will be idle until end of 2022. Over to you, company accountants.
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Old 10th Nov 2021, 23:55
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The Dog House
Posts: 36
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...889e3b29b104e0

Announcements to come but it looks like exemptions to be lost - if the crew base have any spine left they'll sit on their hands until incentives return and working conditions become sustainable - the managers of Cathay Pacific have reaped what they have sown - crew morale beyond rock bottom expecting people to volunteer for another 6-12 months of isolation and sliding backwards financially.... this can only end well.
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Old 11th Nov 2021, 02:58
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 44
01 April 1993 is the day when those days went.
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Old 11th Nov 2021, 05:50
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 53
Posts: 0
gipilot

There are no attractive 747 jobs in Europe, nor did all based guys got hired. The market in Europe is terrible, 20days on for maybe a third of the money compared to HK.
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Old 11th Nov 2021, 07:14
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Krug departure, Merlot transition
Posts: 601
That’s not quite right STW. Even on the worst EU contract I know of, a DEC working 20 days on would give a comparable income to POS18 CN1, except you live where you want, they fly you out and back so no stress, downroute you can do whatever local rules allow (remember actually stretching your legs and perhaps eating out of a plate and not a cardboard box?), and on your days off you’re not testing every two days. Your family members aren’t treated like leper contacts, nor are you running the constant risk of having your loved ones, dozens of your colleagues and perhaps your children's classmates end up in Penny’s Bay.

Don’t get me wrong, these contracts are pretty bad, but there are also better contracts out there. Between not having to pay rent in the world’s most expensive city and the sanity of day to day life, the very fact that we can even compare these contracts to our lot make you think long and hard what we’re doing here.
main_dog is online now  
Old 11th Nov 2021, 07:33
  #33 (permalink)  
Rie
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Wan Chai
Posts: 256
The worst contract right now looks to be HKE. Just saw the 2022 plan. It seems as if they won't have many pilots left after forcing them all onto leave without pay.

I wonder if this is a precursor to 21 day crew quarantine for everyone.
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Old 11th Nov 2021, 08:03
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 53
Posts: 0
Main Dog, which airline in Europe offers comparable pay?

I did the math, ASL would result in 30% of what I earn now, plus the pleasure of 20 days on.

Aerologic ( 777F) same shambolic pay, albeit with slightly better roster. Expect to fly +100 hrs block(!). They still do layover in HK, I see them sitting in the mid terminal all the time. If their test is positive its Penny Bay for them as well.

Not trying to defend our employer, not all, but where are these offers you mentioned?

PS I own my place in HK, and even with school fees and higher groceries the shortfall in income is so massive, it really doesn't matter how much I save on a pint of milk.

Look, I am actually considering to just accept lower pay, HK is over for me, I just want to get out. But what I cannot accept is a roster with 20 days on, standby at a place I don't live, 3 men 16 hour days or low cost rosters from hell with 0500 am sign on and 5 sector days. Let's not paint the situation rosier at it is, there is nowhere to hide right now.

If you disagree: please name the airline you are talking of. Stop beating around the bush: where? Lets talk numbers!

Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 11th Nov 2021 at 08:31.
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Old 11th Nov 2021, 08:37
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki
Age: 46
Posts: 64
You are wrong and have no idea what you’re talking about. There are jobs and I repeat ALL 747 pilots(once that were interested and have easa licenses) got hired. You talk about attractive , that’s a extremely relative word in these times. I wrote jobs, flying jobs that can pay your bills, there are enough on the 747 in Europe at this time, just make sure you have the proper license. Let’s not even talk about what’s happening in the U.S. with 747 jobs, please educate yourself of what’s going on outside the great universe you think is Hong Kong.

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Old 11th Nov 2021, 08:52
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Krug departure, Merlot transition
Posts: 601
STW

If you’re on CN4 and own your own place, and your kids are gone, then yes you will still be better off financially staying in HKG, assuming you can stand the insanity. If you’re CN1/2 (or worse FO1/2), renting and with kids in school, it’s a different ballgame. In these scenarios you’re looking at spending most of your monthly income for the world’s most expensive rents and tuition, let alone food (and fuggedabout savings).

Since you bring up Aerologic, from a mate of mine joining them I do believe that’s actually a pretty decent contract, with proper benefits (ie a proper pension, Lufthansa travel benefits etc) and certainly more than shambolic pay (although they do work them hard).

You mention rosters from hell: I don’t know about yours, but mine doesn’t come out until the 27th, contains little to nothing of what I asked for, and what little there is gets taken away on day of ops. This isn’t even necessarily our employer’s fault, they need to cater to continuously changing rules and CHP’s zero-covid “strategy”.

Finally, while some airlines do still layover in HKG and risk “prison”, it’s only an occasional risk, and their families and friends won’t be involved. They only see the midfield concourse now and again, and are paid an allowance for that additional hardship (while many of us are logging more “hard white chair” time than flying time).

For us it’s a continuous sword of Damocles: at any moment your phone could ring advising that you and your loved ones are about to be carted off to PB, because you happened to position with some unlucky soul last week or unwittingly shared a taxi home with them the other day.

Good jobs are really only available in the US right now, for the rest, pick your poison depending on personal circumstances.
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Old 11th Nov 2021, 09:02
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 53
Posts: 0
You are mistaken regarding Aerologic, I checked the numbers.

Pay is roughly 7000 T Euro net for a skipper. German tax is brutal. If you get a LH seat, F/O starts at half of that. That is a fact.

Pension is negligible, they only pay minimum state contributions, if you don't pay into their system for 40+ years you get almost nothing back, and it only starts at age 67 anyway.

They fly more than 100 hrs block per month, 3 men from Europe to India to Hong Kong. In one go.

There is a regular requirement for standby at the base ( within one hour availability).

I also would warn against cherry picking. Yes, you pay more for groceries and school in Hong Kong. But on the other side childcare/ cleaning etc is extremely cheap, and you don't pay for car, gas and insurance. You also have virtually no commuting costs/hotels for standby etc, no tax on capital income, rental income or dividends. Real estate in Europe is not cheap either, and the quality of the state schools heavily depend on your place of residence (aka cheap or expensive area).

Aerologic is probably the worst paying 777 job worldwide. Depending on your CN stage, homeownership, number of kids etc you would end up with one third to maybe (!) half the cx salary.

Again, not trying to defend Cx, but those are the facts.

Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 11th Nov 2021 at 09:32.
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Old 11th Nov 2021, 09:28
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Egoli
Posts: 346
Rie

Its 9 months unpaid "voluntary" ! Wonder how they look at you if you dont volunteer !
volare_737 is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2021, 16:47
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Back of Beyond
Posts: 65
STW, the fact that you don't know about the 747 jobs in Europe that are indeed interestingly financially, with an exciting future, and certainly better than POS18, says more about you than it does about the jobs themselves.

They are 'by invitation only', based on internal recommendation, and cherry picking Cathay pilots by the bushel load. So indeed, you have probably never heard of them. Good luck with that! Maybe you have ruffled a few feathers in your time.
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Old 11th Nov 2021, 17:23
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 53
Posts: 0
VIP invitation-only secret jobs for a small circle of elite Cathay pilots, hahahahaha, brilliant !
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