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Zone/CFIS Operations

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Zone/CFIS Operations

Old 27th Mar 2021, 06:06
  #21 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: HK
Posts: 1
VFR flights in HK is actually not so different from VFR flight in the other places. Less controlled and more fun..

1. In the uncontrolled airspace, the ATC would provide Traffic Information service. Separation with traffic and obstacle is ur job as a VFR aircraft.
In the controlled airspace, the ATC would take care of the separation between u and the IFR traffic. U still need to take care of the obstacle separate.
As always, if you can maintain visual separation with the other VFR/IFR traffic, you can make their job a little easier

2. Clearances and Instructions are given in controlled airspace.
Because they are given in form of a clearance to fly to the VFR waypoints and a clearance to join via the VFR routes - all in the HK AIP of course
You take care of the navigation (heading, track etc.) and you are going to have some local knowledge (but i guess it's just like any other places.)

3. No ideal what is that, maybe someone from the ATC can tell more?

My understanding of the clearance is that they are happy to let you climb to whatever altitude you like (remember less controlled, more fun)
But please do not climb to the airspaces that are used by the big jets.
Long answer short, if you climb above 2000' AMSL, you would most certainly go into the big jet airspace
unless you are in the NE part of HK, where the upper limit of uncontrolled airspace is 3000' AMSL
not a big J is online now  
Old 27th Mar 2021, 07:05
  #22 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Wan Chai
Posts: 305
I don't know if you realised but the NATS contract is the newer expat contract for the ATC in Hong Kong. It isn't NATS uk, its hiring for CAD operations locally based in HK. I don't know the full details but many NZ/UK etc are/were employed under it.
Rie is offline  
Old 29th Mar 2021, 10:29
  #23 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 12
Yes very aware about that NATS contract here. I know them all. Only 50% left now.
The airport authority/NATS terminated half after most were pretty much headhunted from previous big airports/acc’s. Some on more money/better conditions at their previous place.
AviationBloke is offline  
Old 30th Mar 2021, 03:40
  #24 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
Posts: 344
Originally Posted by AviationBloke View Post

and again this is because they’re (ATC) are doing It wrong 👍
Ha, cummon. You sound like you know way too much about it to not be ATC yourself.
Don’t like doing CFIS in the Tower?
You’d be aware there was a full safety assessment done so you probably won’t get far down that path.
Is CAD grossly over-servicing the Class G stuff? Absolutely. Are they going to change that? Given DG’s background, I doubt it.
Just keep taking the bucket of 💰 while it outweighs the bucket of 💩 is my advice.
LapSap is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2021, 12:57
  #25 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 12
Haha... whether it’s liked or not, it’s not the place for it. It’s a massive backward step.
The SMS assessment must be a laugh, no one with any credibility has had the chance to look at it... think we’ll just have to wait for an incident... no change there.

Yes I know no one will get them to change to a normal way of operating but it’s good to rant about what goes on inside the gold fish bowl. Just let the unbeknown swim....
AviationBloke is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2021, 04:50
  #26 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 12
not a big J

I could pick a lot out of this but I’ll deal with a few points here.

VFR is certainly not like it is anywhere else in the world. Acting as both ATC and a pilot... no way. Maybe there’s some similarities in terms in UCARAS and a few Zone operations but that’s about it.

1. outside controlled airspace, class F/G... it’s a FIS (flight information service), same the world over apart from UK which changed it to a Basic Service in 2009. No separation between IFR and VFR or anything else for that matter especially under a FIS. There’s no other ATSOCAS ( ATC outside Controlled Airspace) here.
looking out of the window is the morals of flying VFR.
plenty of information on this ( icao 4444, Rules of the Air) etc...

2. Controlled Airpace.
not too bad.. you’re generally correct. Remembering that you if you’re asked to maintain a level, it’s on the understanding that you may have to report unable to comply in order to maintain VFR. Personally the technique of using it for any ATC should be avoided. Better to use not above and limit your need to rely on it. ( “report any change” is good for update to ATC in order to pass traffic info).
again plenty of info in ICAO docs

3. Don’t worry..

it’s not that I’m unaware of anything to be answered in accordance with what should happen or what the rules say.... it’s the question of why people as doing it wrong. Whether it be Pilot or ANSP( ATC)

thanks for your response.. love the “big jet airspace “ 😂👍🏼
AviationBloke is offline  

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