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Displaced Local Crew

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Displaced Local Crew

Old 26th Dec 2020, 16:11
  #281 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 71
Unfortunately, like most issues to do with CX, it has turned into the biggest mess possible (that is the one constant in my career....major management foul-ups). Beginning back in 1988 with the localisation program, to ASL, the basing debacle, housing, staff travel, multiple different COS...etc etc...this company has written the industry book on how not to manage an airline. Now, with the cruel scythe of covid through our midst, the consequences of nearly all of those things together have combined to effectively destroy the careers of all their present staff. As you say, no one is happy and if the shoe was on the other foot we'd be equally upset.

The sooner the individual recognises the reality of what CX has now become, the sooner they can make a more informed decision as to their long term future. With the luxury of being at the end of the career, it is obvious that there is no real career left to be had in CX. It has become, and will remain an asian LLC with a more impressive name and reputation (that won't last over the long term however).

I truly feel sorry for all involved, as it really is not the fault of anyone other than a cynical and greedy Swire management cabal. Merlin and family have forgotten who really provided them with this fading jewel in the region, and it is on their heads that I place most of the blame. They and their sycophantic Swire "princes" have conspired to steal all value to themselves, and have cast asunder all the hard working employees that truly created this company.

The only decision to be made now is for each individual to assess where their long term interests best lie. I suggest it is no longer in HK or CX. MM
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Old 27th Dec 2020, 01:50
  #282 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: YVR
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by Walkingthedog View Post
ascalehero

just a question then. It’s acceptable to make ka staff redundant for economic reasons but not cx?
A little. Cathay is the core brand and has the fleet to operate KA flights. KA on the other hand is a subsidiary and does not have the fleet to operate long haul. Seems to make sense.

Is the aim here for KA guys to be rehired as COS18 SOs or direct entry FOs and Captains on a320?
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Old 27th Dec 2020, 02:13
  #283 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Egoli
Posts: 319
Tp pre empty being shoot down, I am an expat here on a working visa, but we have to understand and eventually accept that we are expats here and have a job when needed and ones not needed anymore its time to go home. There is no first world country in this world which would dish out working visas should there be local citizens out of work. I don't know why this is so hard to understand , and as far as I am concerned one should come to foreign countries with a mindset that things can change very quickly and not look for a job until retirement . It might have been like that but unfortunately those times are over. And for some of us foreigners who still believe the world won't work without us , have another look at reality !!!!
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Old 28th Dec 2020, 03:16
  #284 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Cesspit
Posts: 323
Volare_737,

That’s a refreshingly mature post. The unfortunate circumstances that this year has brought to us all has wide ranging implications. Pilots have a unique inability to comprehend scenarios unless they’re at the centre of it with some degree of control over.

The severe restrictions placed upon businesses has had a devastating affect on the labour workforce. The Hong Kong government, like virtually every other government that relies on a work visa program to cover shortfalls in skilled labour, is reviewing its General Employment Policy (GEP) across a range of industries and occupations, not just aviation and pilots. To suggest that if a handful of expats simply “go home” (forgetting for a moment that the requirement for PR is that you’ve made Hong Kong your permanent home) will solve the government’s GEP issues is naive in the extreme.
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Old 28th Dec 2020, 05:59
  #285 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: HK
Age: 50
Posts: 103
ascalehero

I am hanging around Hong Kong as I own my flat here, have nowhere else to live and only have a rating on my Hong Kong licence which limits the options for jobs.

Consider those made redundant when they next hire, that's a good way to value pilots who've spent many years flying aircraft and making money for the group.
As you said, don't forget who the enemy is, CX management breached immigration law when they made Permanent residents redundant and kept Visa workers. You can't blame KA pilots for that.

What's coming next is that CX and most Hong Kong airlines will run short of crews when months after months Visa workers end up going back home and CX won't have any other choice than offering jobs to ex-KA staff.
As I said, not our fault, if anyone is to blame, it's a management that, after spending 6 months doing nothing rushed a redundancy and forgot immigration and labour law.


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Old 28th Dec 2020, 06:26
  #286 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: The Forbidden City
Posts: 61
Fully agree with the typical knee jerk reaction of CX management.
They only had 9 months to consult with lawyers, Govt officials, Immigration, unions etc etc.
Some things will just never change.


Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.

Unfortunately there’s not going to be a massive re-hiring and recruitment drive for the CX group. Lean and mean would be the only way forward, couple of 320/321 flying the “rice bowl”. And a handful long haul destinations on the A50 for rich locals bailing out.

Tourism for HK is dead in the water, transit flights, hub-and-spoke model yesteryears news.

What was once labelled as Asias World City is now Just Another China City, and CX just another LCC competing with the high rollers.

Last edited by Curry Lamb; 28th Dec 2020 at 07:53.
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Old 28th Dec 2020, 13:17
  #287 (permalink)  
hyg
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: hong kong
Posts: 130
bacou
​​​​​​
Why do you think CX or its lawyers didn't think of the visa issue, may be that's the way they wanted it... thinning the herd by the 'oh sorry it's not our fault that the HK gov doesn't wanna give u a visa'.... don't forget the 2 party nominated secretary on the board
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Old 28th Dec 2020, 14:16
  #288 (permalink)  
swh

Eidolon
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Some hole
Posts: 2,011
Originally Posted by mngmt mole View Post
There is virtually no country that will displace its local talent for the sake of expats.
This is rife in HKG across many sectors. If you know anyone in the corporate jet area ask them about how pilots from just south of HKG have come in and displaced locals offering to work for half or a third of the pay. They had the 852 pilots group on Facebook setup for this. The owners don’t care, they get their hired help cheaper and keep the difference.
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Old 29th Dec 2020, 04:18
  #289 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: AUS
Posts: 2
How much were the displaced KA lot given when they shut down? 9 months salary? more?

Pretty sure CX will be asking for 6 months of that back if they're forced to rehire, and then invite them to join HK express with their airbus rating on COS21! That'll quieten those angry voices outside immigration pretty quickly.....
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Old 30th Dec 2020, 09:38
  #290 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: HK
Age: 50
Posts: 103
CX is not going to be forced to rehire KA crews, however they will need pilots to fly their aircraft when borders open.

If Cathay can't hire outside of HKG and keep on losing the Visa workers who else can they hire other than PR pilots looking for a job in HKG?

Don't be mean with HKE, it's the future of CX, wait to see some of your longhaul moving across, with a bit of luck you'll go there as well unless they choose to make you redundant.
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Old 30th Dec 2020, 17:07
  #291 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Fragrant Harbour
Posts: 314
CX needing pilots? Have you had a look at the seniority list? CX presently has around 3145 pilots on that list. I doubt CX will go back to a pre Covid flight schedule within the next 5 years. For 2021 the first 6 months flight schedule forecast is less then 25% and less then 50% flight schedule for the remainder of the year, maybe 50% of those pilots on the seniority list are needed. Considering the recent mutation of the Covid virus and increased travel restrictions worldwide, the above forecast might be optimistic.

Next decision by CX management, affecting pilots, will be the result of the basings review in March 2021. Now that will be interesting.
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Old 30th Dec 2020, 18:00
  #292 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
Posts: 56
You mean the cheapest pilots on the payroll?

if anything I wouldn’t be surprised if the bases are going to grow, to fix the visa issue so many are facing in HKG.
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Old 31st Dec 2020, 07:06
  #293 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: sierra village
Posts: 332
What you forget is based pilots, as “cheap” as they may be, do nothing for the HK economy. Unlike resident pilots who spend lots of money in HK, creating employment, business and opportunity via the multiplier effect of every dollar being re-spent countless times in country.

Pressure will be brought to bear on CX to minimize bases in order to keep that money recirculating in country. You can be sure that in these difficult times every dollar matters for the HK government and directly or indirectly they can influence outcomes.
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Old 31st Dec 2020, 07:56
  #294 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: HK
Posts: 65
Spot on Lucille.....(except for the fact that based pilots pay full HK tax)
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Old 31st Dec 2020, 09:40
  #295 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 4
No we don’t!
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Old 31st Dec 2020, 10:53
  #296 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 70
Oasis

To the indifferent & uninformed observer It would appear as if management are keeping the base pilots as a 'reserve group' of pilots should there prediction for a recovery come true in the late stages of 2021, the majority of the bases are now on 6 month salary reduction schemes so cost the company an incredibly small amount and buy management time to decide if CX needs 3000 pilots or only 2500! If the answer is the later, then the HK government not issuing work visas nor renewing them takes care of that for cx.

Last edited by LLLQNH; 31st Dec 2020 at 12:11.
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Old 31st Dec 2020, 11:58
  #297 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 52
Posts: 136
HK based pilots are on 6 months salary reduction "deals" as well.
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Old 5th Jan 2021, 17:41
  #298 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: H.K
Posts: 59
lucille

I guess you dont realize that most based pilots pay full HK tax just as you do and a very high number hold PR.
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