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Displaced Local Crew

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Displaced Local Crew

Old 5th Nov 2020, 06:25
  #1 (permalink)  
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Join Date: May 2020
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Displaced Local Crew

It is the duty of the the immigration department to protect and support the local workforce, as stated in every single Hong Kong immigration document.

The Hong Kong aviation industry is over crewed by employees on general employment contracts. The 990B employment forms were quickly processed by the HK Immigration Department due to the lack of locally qualified pilots and rapid expansion of local carriers.

THIS IS NO LONGER THE CASE WITH A HUGE POOL OF LOCALLY QUALIFIED PILOTS & CABIN CREW

For company HR managers there are severe penalties for making false declarations on the 990B form, including jail. When you are applying or renewing employee work permits under the 990B form, what will be your justifications for NOT employing a qualified Hong Kong passport holder or permanent resident?

For every work permit extension or application submitted you will be risking imprisonment and you WILL be reported.

Hong Kong Passport Holders and Permanent Residents keep voicing your concerns to the South China Morning Post and keep making your voice heard to the immigration department hotlines and reporting services.

Best of luck.

EddyTemple is offline  
Old 5th Nov 2020, 06:55
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Rie
 
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As in the past all they will do is offer an interview and deem them to not be a suitable candidate. Repeat that a few dozen times over and you are back on track.
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Old 5th Nov 2020, 07:06
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Well considering that HKA flight ops are mainly on work permits, I think its best to throw them under the bus first and hire some reputable people that value the local workforce and respect the laws.
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Old 5th Nov 2020, 07:26
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Will you also be challenging the visa renewals that happen every two years?
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Old 5th Nov 2020, 07:51
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Unfortunately yes Farman, if you are on a work permit you are displacing the local workforce due to the downturn. Just like in Singapore the work permits were the first to go. Having a guess I would say the remaining aviation companies have more than 50% of their aircrew on work permits, blocking the local workforce for re-employment into their chosen profession.

It's going to be hard to justify those kind of numbers to the immigration department with the locally qualified manpower now available.
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Old 5th Nov 2020, 08:24
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Join Date: Oct 2018
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This was discussed at an Ops meeting previously. The advice received was if you have the exact skills and qualifications available locally then you shouldn't be issuing work permits! Simply having an unemployed pilot in the local workforce wasn't a significant enough reason to not issue work permits or renew them. Type ratings, training and experience with the airline of employment also was apparently a factor. I wish you the best of luck, and sincerely feel terrible about what has happened to the Dragon community!
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Old 5th Nov 2020, 08:46
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SW1
 
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Thumbs up

990B relates to brand new working visa applications, which nobody will be applying for in the next couple of years. I can also assure you the majority of HKA pilots(those left) are permanent residents.

Likewise anyone that joined Dragon Air less than 7 years ago is also on a renewable work visa. Same as HKE.

If Cathay were really worried about breaking immigration law, then by your logic they should have sacked all HKE crew and replaced them with qualified Dragon guys- why didnt they?

These pilots that you wish to throw under the bus have a contract with their employer- for them to replaced by someone similarly qualified to themselves would involve statutory payouts as per the HK employment ordinance. Might get quite expensive for the new employer.

My deepest sympathy goes out to the affected Dragon guys and girls- absolutely shit what happened to them..

Eddy keep chasing those ambulances....

Last edited by SW1; 5th Nov 2020 at 08:57.
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Old 5th Nov 2020, 12:18
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good try Eddy. try harder next time.
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Old 5th Nov 2020, 12:57
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Quote: If Cathay were really worried about breaking immigration law, then by your logic they should have sacked all HKE crew and replaced them with qualified Dragon guys- why didnt they?

Who says that they’re not going to? It is the next logical step. The KA 320 guys and gals have exactly the skill set required for HKE. This situation has never arisen in Hong Kong aviation before. Watch this space, there is plenty more to come.
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Old 5th Nov 2020, 14:43
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The KA 320 guys and gals have exactly the skill set required for HKE.
So do the HKE guys and gals.
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Old 5th Nov 2020, 15:30
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Your company is living in fairyland, applying for work visa extensions just because someone has experience within an airline. Until they are granted PR status or obtain a Hong Kong passport they are just contract workers on a two year rolling basis.

Most immigration departments take the necessary steps to protect their industries and now is the time for Hong Kong to protect the local workforce and follow the policy and procedures presented in their documentation.

To quote a few government documents online ;

"Promoting the employment of local workers and protecting the rights and benefits of employees top the agenda for the Government."

"The Hong Kong government strongly advocates that employers must give first preference to the local workforce for filling job vacancies."

"long-established Government policy that priority in employment should be given to the local workforce and importation of foreign workers should only be allowed when there is proven manpower shortage in specific trades that cannot be filled by local workers."

"While giving employment priority to local workers, we will stay vigilant and explore with stakeholders the pros and cons of increasing imported labour on an appropriate and limited scale to support our development as a high value-added and diversified economy."


The immigration department and Legco will continue to be lobbied until there is a much higher percentage of locally qualified crew re-employed in Hong Kong.

Best of luck.

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Old 5th Nov 2020, 15:37
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Join Date: Oct 2018
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a lot of those statements use the word Vacancies, priority in employing & hiring. All of that isn't the case when your extending the visa of an employee who already has a job! You needn't worry Cathay will not be recruiting new hires for a very very very long time! When new hire recruitment eventually happens again by my guess 5 years from now they already have a pool of local cadets who have finished in Adelaide to give Second Officer courses!
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Old 5th Nov 2020, 15:49
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Call it ambiguous interpret how you want. This is the exact reason why LEGCO & the immigration department are being lobbied, to put the priority back to locals first.

Who do you think the government are going to listen to? a few hundred local citizens asking for genuine help? or some corrupt washed up flight ops guys from the Philippines & Malaysia trying to feather their nest and BS their way through aviation like they always have.

Best of luck.
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Old 5th Nov 2020, 16:51
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Join Date: Dec 1998
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Eddy. Any pilot already employed in HK will have their visa renewed. You should settle down a bit as you are coming across as a bit of a knob.
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Old 5th Nov 2020, 17:29
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Eddy,

Seeing that the HK Govt. lent CX a substantial amount of money, do you think they were not aware of the impending closure of KA?
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Old 5th Nov 2020, 17:42
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HKE pilots are on 3 year contracts. Once their three years is up, their contracts will not be renewed, and KA Pilots will be offered the contract if they pass the selection process.
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Old 5th Nov 2020, 18:28
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I think that the normal "rules" don't apply in the eyes of immigration anyway when it comes to aviation in Hong Kong! Cathay, HKE, HKA & Dragon when they were around could and still can do whatever they like! These companies generate so many jobs locally that immigration and the Government give them carte Blanche! Just look at how uninterested the government have been with our (the aircrew and cabin crew bodies) grievances against Cathay surrounding the events of the last few weeks!

Remember it was only 10-12 years ago that Cathay Flight Crew Recruitment started to hire 'international' cadets! Yes people with zero flying experience from overseas, not HKID card holders nor Hong Kong citizens and send them to Adelaide for an all expenses paid training course from a nobody to a fully licensed pilot! Despite there being lots of university graduates and local unemployed talent available in Hong Kong and whom applied for and were interested in becoming Cathay pilots!

There you have it president set! Cathay and all of the airline companies in Hong Kong are a law unto themselves!

Last edited by LLLQNH; 5th Nov 2020 at 19:21.
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Old 5th Nov 2020, 19:00
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Steady on Eddy.......icemankk2001 is from Malaysia and he's your biggest fan
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Old 5th Nov 2020, 19:50
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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EddyTemple

Is this the same LEGCO that you people stormed and vandalised? And now you want their help?

Haha, nice one
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Old 5th Nov 2020, 20:42
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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Eddy I see where your coming from. Do you not think cathay has thought this through before doing what they did? A “few hundred pilots” is an insignificant number as there is new airline opening up and there will be natural retirements and resignations in the coming months to years. They will not hire from outside for a while as priority will go to the recent redundant pilots. HKE and the rest will look into Local pilots and they will be offered interviews/employment.If I were you just enjoy the time off. Yes if you get back into it will be cos 18 and yes you will be bottom of seniority . In 2 years time when the transition agreement is over. There will be an exodus of pilots. Terms and conditions will be increased to try to maintain pilots.
EddyI wouldn’t worry too much. Too many locals think short term. You got a payout and it has only been 2 weeks. And the “locals” is alrdy trying to throw the “expats” under the bus. This really shows your mentality and selfishness.
you probably will not have the qualifications and knowledge you have today if it wasn’t for your “expat” colleagues. So should respect them as they have respected you. Instead of just trying to memorise VOL 8
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