Displaced Local Crew
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Nimbus
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am sure the perfect safety record of CX come from the vast variety of background and experience of the flight crew.
Make it all French and you become another AF.
Make it all local and you become another KAL or Asiana.
Make it all American and your SOPs mean nothing.
Make it all German (or Oz) and there goes your CRM
Etc...
I've got more stereotype if people don't feel offended enough.
All cultures and educations have their strengths and their flaws.
What you want is a good mix of them so everybody benefit and learn from their colleagues' strengths.
I will truly miss that diversity.
No other airline in the world come close to CX in that regard (except maybe EK).
Unfortunately, it seems that safety doesn't matter enough anymore and the risk of having a hull loss is acceptable and accounted for. They will, as always, blame the individual and not the system that created him.
Make it all French and you become another AF.
Make it all local and you become another KAL or Asiana.
Make it all American and your SOPs mean nothing.
Make it all German (or Oz) and there goes your CRM
Etc...
I've got more stereotype if people don't feel offended enough.
All cultures and educations have their strengths and their flaws.
What you want is a good mix of them so everybody benefit and learn from their colleagues' strengths.
I will truly miss that diversity.
No other airline in the world come close to CX in that regard (except maybe EK).
Unfortunately, it seems that safety doesn't matter enough anymore and the risk of having a hull loss is acceptable and accounted for. They will, as always, blame the individual and not the system that created him.
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: HKG
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Curry Lamb
CX really does need competition not only for the travelling public but industrially. With a near complete monopoly they can dictate to the union, tear up contracts and generally bully whoever they please. If there’s no free market there are no market forces to check corporate greed.
CX really does need competition not only for the travelling public but industrially. With a near complete monopoly they can dictate to the union, tear up contracts and generally bully whoever they please. If there’s no free market there are no market forces to check corporate greed.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: World
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry Curry but you are full of it. You think routes will be taken from CX and given to Greater Bay? Why do you think CX chose now to close Dragon? Greater Bay doesn’t have an AOC yet so they can’t be given routes.
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: The Forbidden City
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There you go cup cake:
https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/compone...2-20201022.htm
And in case you haven’t noticed, CXi and UOme are not exactly at 100% capacity right now, and won’t be for the next 12-24 months either.
The jackbooted thugs up north looks after their own, and I’m sure the Wong guy is well connected.
https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/compone...2-20201022.htm
And in case you haven’t noticed, CXi and UOme are not exactly at 100% capacity right now, and won’t be for the next 12-24 months either.
The jackbooted thugs up north looks after their own, and I’m sure the Wong guy is well connected.
Last edited by Curry Lamb; 11th Dec 2020 at 13:47.
Walkingthedog
Corporate greed will continue to go unchecked regardless of a monopoly or not. Why do you think most airline contracts continue to decrease around the world as time goes on. The writing is on the wall but most decide not to observe it
Corporate greed will continue to go unchecked regardless of a monopoly or not. Why do you think most airline contracts continue to decrease around the world as time goes on. The writing is on the wall but most decide not to observe it
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 55
Posts: 501
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Chard is correct, they don't have an AOC and hence are not able to apply (yet). All there is right now is an alleged intent. Also CX never had a full monopoly, there have always been some noisy neighbours around...
Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 11th Dec 2020 at 08:13.
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Rabbit Hutch
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...-get-hong-kong
Made it to the SCMP at last. How predictable that Cathay cite the freighter and vaccines. KA pilots would need very little training to fly green instead of red. Nor is it about foreign vs local. It is PR vs non-PR.
Made it to the SCMP at last. How predictable that Cathay cite the freighter and vaccines. KA pilots would need very little training to fly green instead of red. Nor is it about foreign vs local. It is PR vs non-PR.
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Wan Chai
Posts: 394
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't really understand why you are so invested in every single forum. Bit bored old chap?
Put simply, problem always as this is a pandemic, no tourists until minimum 31 March, Visa renewals 3 months happening and no new visas or employees.
Put simply, problem always as this is a pandemic, no tourists until minimum 31 March, Visa renewals 3 months happening and no new visas or employees.
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: YVR
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seems like still no solution to this problem? Surely these ex KA guys have more self respect than to hang around HK and demand the jobs of CX guys here on visas.
I think most of the pilot community truly felt sorry for the way management axed those who had given years of their career for dragon. I also think most would agree it would make sense for cx to consider those made redundant when they next hire before hiring foreigners on visas in the future.
But to suggest and actively push to have work visas stripped and extensions not provided for those currently at CX so you can maybe have a shot at their job is a pretty low level to fall too. Why drag others down just because you are suffering? Cathay are still overstaffed so the only result of this will be more pilots loosing their job and the Dragon guys who caused it still won't be needed for their fantasy 320 spots.
Let's not forget who the enemy is and it isn't each other.
I think most of the pilot community truly felt sorry for the way management axed those who had given years of their career for dragon. I also think most would agree it would make sense for cx to consider those made redundant when they next hire before hiring foreigners on visas in the future.
But to suggest and actively push to have work visas stripped and extensions not provided for those currently at CX so you can maybe have a shot at their job is a pretty low level to fall too. Why drag others down just because you are suffering? Cathay are still overstaffed so the only result of this will be more pilots loosing their job and the Dragon guys who caused it still won't be needed for their fantasy 320 spots.
Let's not forget who the enemy is and it isn't each other.
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: HKG
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think you’ll find most of the expats have left it’s too expensive to do otherwise.
It’s not just a cx “problem” it impacts all HKG carriers. As to stripping work visas that’s the immigration departments remit not the pilots. It would be naive to assume that they “missed” the fact that ka was shut down. In this town it’s rare that individual cases could ever impact policy.
As to cx being overmanned knowing their track record do you really think they keep people on out of the goodness of their heart or not simply because a few ex ka locals might complain?
It’s not just a cx “problem” it impacts all HKG carriers. As to stripping work visas that’s the immigration departments remit not the pilots. It would be naive to assume that they “missed” the fact that ka was shut down. In this town it’s rare that individual cases could ever impact policy.
As to cx being overmanned knowing their track record do you really think they keep people on out of the goodness of their heart or not simply because a few ex ka locals might complain?
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Perpetually Commuting
Posts: 295
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Because locals are locals and foreigners are foreigners.
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unfortunately, once the company headed down the "local" road (way back in 1988...) it was inevitable that this situation would eventually push its way to the forefront. There is virtually no country that will displace its local talent for the sake of expats. I always believed that one day CX would cease to be an expat company, and in some ways I am surprised it has taken this long. Certainly the political pressure from hundreds of out of work local pilots was always going to pressure change, and once they closed KA it was inevitable the issue would be pressed ahead.
Arguably there is no turning back for the aviation industry in HK. To be fair, the issue is also manifesting itself in the banking industry, with the banks reducing their expat count as more and more local bankers assume the positions of higher responsibility. They become the leaders, and their natural affinity is to hire from a similar background.
It became an accepted "truism" that CX would always be an "expat" airline...until it wasn't. I sympathise for the many expats who internally rationalised that CX was their " career" airline. Unfortunately, the changes in the past year in both the airline and HK have quickly swept that conceit aside. We were always just the hired help, and a new reality has replaced the old comfortable logic, one that no longer applies. I remember an ex CEO tell me back in 1992 that we (the A scale) would "die on the vine". Well, the vine is now withered and about to be discarded...
There will be some expats employed by CX for many years yet, but it will be on strictly local terms and only if they are required for specific job skills. I don't believe "pilot" will remain in that category for too much longer...
Arguably there is no turning back for the aviation industry in HK. To be fair, the issue is also manifesting itself in the banking industry, with the banks reducing their expat count as more and more local bankers assume the positions of higher responsibility. They become the leaders, and their natural affinity is to hire from a similar background.
It became an accepted "truism" that CX would always be an "expat" airline...until it wasn't. I sympathise for the many expats who internally rationalised that CX was their " career" airline. Unfortunately, the changes in the past year in both the airline and HK have quickly swept that conceit aside. We were always just the hired help, and a new reality has replaced the old comfortable logic, one that no longer applies. I remember an ex CEO tell me back in 1992 that we (the A scale) would "die on the vine". Well, the vine is now withered and about to be discarded...
There will be some expats employed by CX for many years yet, but it will be on strictly local terms and only if they are required for specific job skills. I don't believe "pilot" will remain in that category for too much longer...
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: HKG
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You are right. When I joined it was with the understanding that I was joining a local airline and that inevitably once a local workforce was established I’d be surplus to requirements. With that went expat “perks”.
I was told I’d get 10 years 15 at best. I was fortunate that the market was strong and the post handover concept of PR kept me employed (well until recently).
Another aspect is that most of the locals are constrained by their passport and license to working in HKG (even if they got a foreign license they’d be unlikely to get a work via).
One has to look at this from all angles. It’s a mess and the company really should have seen it coming.
Honestly if I were a local I’d be fed up. If the boot we’re on the other foot In sure the cx pilots would feel the same.
I was told I’d get 10 years 15 at best. I was fortunate that the market was strong and the post handover concept of PR kept me employed (well until recently).
Another aspect is that most of the locals are constrained by their passport and license to working in HKG (even if they got a foreign license they’d be unlikely to get a work via).
One has to look at this from all angles. It’s a mess and the company really should have seen it coming.
Honestly if I were a local I’d be fed up. If the boot we’re on the other foot In sure the cx pilots would feel the same.
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unfortunately, like most issues to do with CX, it has turned into the biggest mess possible (that is the one constant in my career....major management foul-ups). Beginning back in 1988 with the localisation program, to ASL, the basing debacle, housing, staff travel, multiple different COS...etc etc...this company has written the industry book on how not to manage an airline. Now, with the cruel scythe of covid through our midst, the consequences of nearly all of those things together have combined to effectively destroy the careers of all their present staff. As you say, no one is happy and if the shoe was on the other foot we'd be equally upset.
The sooner the individual recognises the reality of what CX has now become, the sooner they can make a more informed decision as to their long term future. With the luxury of being at the end of the career, it is obvious that there is no real career left to be had in CX. It has become, and will remain an asian LLC with a more impressive name and reputation (that won't last over the long term however).
I truly feel sorry for all involved, as it really is not the fault of anyone other than a cynical and greedy Swire management cabal. Merlin and family have forgotten who really provided them with this fading jewel in the region, and it is on their heads that I place most of the blame. They and their sycophantic Swire "princes" have conspired to steal all value to themselves, and have cast asunder all the hard working employees that truly created this company.
The only decision to be made now is for each individual to assess where their long term interests best lie. I suggest it is no longer in HK or CX. MM
The sooner the individual recognises the reality of what CX has now become, the sooner they can make a more informed decision as to their long term future. With the luxury of being at the end of the career, it is obvious that there is no real career left to be had in CX. It has become, and will remain an asian LLC with a more impressive name and reputation (that won't last over the long term however).
I truly feel sorry for all involved, as it really is not the fault of anyone other than a cynical and greedy Swire management cabal. Merlin and family have forgotten who really provided them with this fading jewel in the region, and it is on their heads that I place most of the blame. They and their sycophantic Swire "princes" have conspired to steal all value to themselves, and have cast asunder all the hard working employees that truly created this company.
The only decision to be made now is for each individual to assess where their long term interests best lie. I suggest it is no longer in HK or CX. MM
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: YVR
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is the aim here for KA guys to be rehired as COS18 SOs or direct entry FOs and Captains on a320?
Tp pre empty being shoot down, I am an expat here on a working visa, but we have to understand and eventually accept that we are expats here and have a job when needed and ones not needed anymore its time to go home. There is no first world country in this world which would dish out working visas should there be local citizens out of work. I don't know why this is so hard to understand , and as far as I am concerned one should come to foreign countries with a mindset that things can change very quickly and not look for a job until retirement . It might have been like that but unfortunately those times are over. And for some of us foreigners who still believe the world won't work without us , have another look at reality !!!!