Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Total War

Old 2nd Nov 2020, 08:12
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: CLK
Posts: 370
Never fear boys and girls, the HKAOA has fired the first shot in your “Total War”.........a SURVEY.......
Farman Biplane is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2020, 08:21
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 19
Hilarious, but absolutely true.... in fact mimicking the company. They issue surveys and then disregard what it's told them.
never ready is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2020, 09:40
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 53
Posts: 194
At least no more voting against 10 year Arapa or a payrise.



Sam Ting Wong is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2020, 12:38
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 76
Im in Europe for a low cost carrier,Ive been on a 50% paycut since March(even a full wage stil only a fraction of many companies),I wont moan about it Im keeping current and ratings renewed when things turn around I will expect wages to reflect this if not then I will move on even if this means out of aviation.Those moaning about the way things are need to ask themselves "Can I afford medicals,sim refreshers and checks until I find a new job" not to mention rent and food.
justasmallfire is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2020, 12:49
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Dubai
Posts: 10
I mean, at least now those of us that joined on CoS08 will cease to be belittled by those (that were) on superior contracts.

Those that grumbled at us for accepting a lower contract are now doing the very same thing. (And no, before you say it, it really isn't different).

It's unpleasant, but when it comes to picking the best option of a band bunch, there really isn't much choice.
dubaiwarrior is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2020, 15:35
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: hong kong
Posts: 38
dubaiwarrior is correct.
badge42 is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2020, 17:41
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
Posts: 139
Not quite the same though... when you accepted cos18, the pilot market was significantly better.

now you won’t be able to find a job anywhere, you really have no option other than to opt out, completely..
Oasis is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2020, 18:14
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Everywhere
Posts: 13
I have been on zero pay since April waiting and hoping for our bankrupt airline to get off the ground again. The little monthly financial help we’ve received from our “government“ represents 4% of my salary. I have been trying for 6 months, with very limited success, to make a buck doing jobs I wouldn’t have dreamed of a year ago. My comfortable left seat job seems like a distant memory now.
Whatever the conditions of employment under this COS 18, I guarantee you it’s better than sitting without a job in this economic environment. If you are still employed in an airline and receiving a salary you’re not doing too bad! It’s not easy making a living out there...
Morphieus is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2020, 18:29
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Dubai
Posts: 10
Oasis

I assure you, much like now, it was the only palatable offer at the time, and certainly the best. It didn’t prevent many years of judgement though...

Perhaps a time to reflect on how we treat each other, and the importance of a bit of mutual respect.
dubaiwarrior is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2020, 19:18
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Syd
Posts: 19
Originally Posted by kennedytown View Post
I love all this bluffing that you will taxi slow and won't take directs and will update your CV and leave. You all should be grateful that you still have jobs and haven't been laid off like what other pilots have been worldwide including your Cathay Dragon colleagues. They'd happily take your position if you don't want it. Feel free to return to your home country now and join the other pilots driving tractors, trucks or stacking shelves in the supermarket. Even on COS18, the package is still way better than what you would earn at other airlines back in your home countries so none of you will actually leave when the opportunity arises once things recover. Oh and you'll have to wait for all those pilots back in your home country who were laid off to be recalled first and at that point you will be going to the bottom of the seniority list so doubt you will. So good luck. Even on the new contract the grass isn't greener. Cathay pilots have been spoiled for too long with your overly generous packages, this is a well needed reality check.
At least someone in honky has a grasp of reality.

A lot down here in oz have yet to wake up and smell the coffee.

Winning right now is having a job because without one it will be a very very long time before you will have one.

Dont blow it!
Orange future is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2020, 20:20
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 53
Posts: 194
Dubaiwarrior is correct in my opinion. It's an enduring myth that they had plenty of superior alternatives.

Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 2nd Nov 2020 at 22:04.
Sam Ting Wong is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2020, 21:00
  #32 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: HKG
Posts: 272
Originally Posted by dubaiwarrior View Post
I mean, at least now those of us that joined on CoS08 will cease to be belittled by those (that were) on superior contracts.

Those that grumbled at us for accepting a lower contract are now doing the very same thing. (And no, before you say it, it really isn't different).

It's unpleasant, but when it comes to picking the best option of a band bunch, there really isn't much choice.
I guess there are similarities. POS18 joiners took the job because it was the best offer they had (due to low experience or no other options). The rest of us have been given a sign or fire and in the current environment one has bugger all choice but to sign. One group because they couldn't get a better job, the other group because there are no other jobs.
controlledrest is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2020, 21:37
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: everywhere
Posts: 171
In a European mainline carrier and I have just joined Domino's as a pizza delivery driver ... no pay or work since March.

Anyone wanna swap places!?

In all seriousness, I can understand the frustrations of those if they have witnessed their T&Cs drop significantly since joining, we got into flying to lead comfortable lives, not to be thankful for whatever crumbs get thrown at us and have management step all over us.

For now the way I see it is you make note of what management are doing and when better times come (which they will), you put the foot down and make your case heard. When they really do need you all to fulfill schedules again and finding a replacement with the adequate experience won't be so easy you'll have an amount of bargaining power. Right now you have none and they have it all unfortunately.
A320LGW is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2020, 23:25
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Asia
Posts: 122
controlledrest

I completely understand your feelings, but to think these pitiful actions will make any difference to ANYTHING is laughable. They’ve trapped us and we have to tramp the treadmill until another opportunity arises. It’s sobering to hear about airline captains delivering pizzas. I appreciate those who posted.
Bangaluru is offline  
Old 3rd Nov 2020, 05:31
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: HKG
Age: 51
Posts: 222
I still can't believe they actually pay me to do this!
RAT Management is offline  
Old 3rd Nov 2020, 21:54
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,459
What, troll the internet?

ManaAdaSystem is offline  
Old 3rd Nov 2020, 22:33
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: HKG
Age: 51
Posts: 222
Ha ha ha. I overlooked that.
RAT Management is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2020, 03:49
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Lonely planet
Posts: 51
controlledrest

What a load of nonsense, all this big talk, chest beating will amount to nothing! Fact that you've already signed over to COS 18 says it all.
Oddball77 is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2020, 04:34
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 53
Posts: 194
I have to agree unfortunately.
Traditionally a war doesn't start with surrendering..
Sam Ting Wong is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2020, 08:33
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: planet earth
Posts: 62
Agree. The war is over. We are all now POW's. Our task now is to escape.
doolay is offline  

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