CX Shares slip below HK8
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 125
Originally Posted by kahaha
Shares in CX at hk$6.8 at the end of trading today.
The slide continues, yet what is actually being done to stem the losses?
No layoffs, why? BA 12000 jobs
VA has shed 500 pilots . Ryanair 3000 pilots.
These airlines are now recovering.
Will business ever return to pre covid levels?
Not for years . There is growing anti china sentiment amoung the populations of the developed world. Common folk are trying to avoid Chinese produced products. Currently a different task, but the momentum is building .
But cx management think air travel via hk will rebound before the cash and bonuses run out .
Who knows. I’m betting the shares will continue their slide , the airline will have to lay off some of all those folks they kerp at cx city .
I mean , what do they all really do for those 90 min lunch breaks in the cx canteen?
The slide continues, yet what is actually being done to stem the losses?
No layoffs, why? BA 12000 jobs
VA has shed 500 pilots . Ryanair 3000 pilots.
These airlines are now recovering.
Will business ever return to pre covid levels?
Not for years . There is growing anti china sentiment amoung the populations of the developed world. Common folk are trying to avoid Chinese produced products. Currently a different task, but the momentum is building .
But cx management think air travel via hk will rebound before the cash and bonuses run out .
Who knows. I’m betting the shares will continue their slide , the airline will have to lay off some of all those folks they kerp at cx city .
I mean , what do they all really do for those 90 min lunch breaks in the cx canteen?
At the moment I reckon (my guess):
1. Looking at which routes will be viable
2. Working out fleet and headcount reductions
3. Spending a lot of time with lawyers to avoid court cases and seeing how much room they have to manoeuvre re contracts, seniority, residency etc.
4. as per 3 but working out how to implement a new contracts
The bailout gives them breathing space that’s all
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by AllWobbly
At the moment I reckon (my guess):
1. Looking at which routes will be viable
2. Working out fleet and headcount reductions
3. Spending a lot of time with lawyers to avoid court cases and seeing how much room they have to manoeuvre re contracts, seniority, residency etc.
4. as per 3 but working out how to implement a new contracts
The bailout gives them breathing space that’s all
1. Looking at which routes will be viable
2. Working out fleet and headcount reductions
3. Spending a lot of time with lawyers to avoid court cases and seeing how much room they have to manoeuvre re contracts, seniority, residency etc.
4. as per 3 but working out how to implement a new contracts
The bailout gives them breathing space that’s all
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: china
Age: 51
Posts: 81
The are reluctant to loose the D scale brush wing brigade. A third the price of a B scale FO and when they make command, a much broader saving .
I suspect voluntary redundancies , extended unpaid first . CX don’t want to make anyone redundant, they are the National airline .
I suspect voluntary redundancies , extended unpaid first . CX don’t want to make anyone redundant, they are the National airline .
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 125
Originally Posted by cxorcist
That’s a pretty expensive way to take one’s time figuring out what to do. I bet wartime generals wish they had nine months to figure it all out too, but they don’t, never have, never will. Good leadership involves making good decisions IN A TIMELY fashion, not simply taking your sweet time. The pilot contracts have provision for redundancies, either use it or get off the pot. If CX doesn’t like LIFO, then they should never have put it into the contracts.
Sure is. As I said it’s purely a guess. I believe they thought it would be over by the summer, now perhaps by Autumn. Failing that after a vaccine is produced.
Have you seen the latest from BA an airline operating in an environment with “solid” protections?
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 125
Originally Posted by kahaha
And so has been the case for the last few months, the sinking feeling of the plummeting value of Cathay Pacific. Another 10% and we will be in uncharted territory regarding possible takeover bids or share swops. Cant be long before Qatar wants an increased slice.
But before then , there’s that small matter of fat cat pilots sat on their backsides , ( literally) earning far too much in the current climate.
But hey, at least the hk$ is strong and the GBP weak . Very weak, time to cash in and run to retirement. Lol.
But before then , there’s that small matter of fat cat pilots sat on their backsides , ( literally) earning far too much in the current climate.
But hey, at least the hk$ is strong and the GBP weak . Very weak, time to cash in and run to retirement. Lol.
No thanks
Coronation Street, the weather, the food (I’d be an even fatter cat) , the tax , breakfast tv and the tabloids.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by AllWobbly
Sure is. As I said it’s purely a guess. I believe they thought it would be over by the summer, now perhaps by Autumn. Failing that after a vaccine is produced.
Have you seen the latest from BA an airline operating in an environment with “solid” protections?
Have you seen the latest from BA an airline operating in an environment with “solid” protections?
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: planet earth
Posts: 60
If CX doesn’t like LIFO, then they should never have put it into the contracts.
However it is very clearly written in the rest of our COS's.
Last edited by doolay; 12th Jul 2020 at 13:00. Reason: Spellen
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 125
Originally Posted by cxorcist
No, and I don’t care (although I wish them all the best) because it’s completely irrelevant. Their contract has nothing to do with ours and vice versa.
I hope you are right.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by AllWobbly
I don’t agree. I would argue that BA crews with BALPA behind them have always been in a stronger position. The reason it’s relevant is if it can happen to BA it can happen to anyone.
I hope you are right.
I hope you are right.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Not where I want to be
Posts: 65
Originally Posted by cxorcist
If CX renegs on their contracts, watch the morale amongst pilots descend to never seen lows, and it’s been REALLY bad at times in the last three decades. By now, CX knows the devastating consequences of having crews work against the Company.
Devastating. Really. Not too much devastation obvious pre Covid. Contract compliance was akin to a mosquito attempting to bite a rhinos arse. I didn’t see one solitary example of anyone taking it further and working against the company.
Those that still have a job will continue to take flight plan fuel, do RETI etc.
For those still here Morale will improve when there is a plan. For those of us finding ourselves on the outside looking in, CX, HKG, HKG public won’t give a damn about our Morale. It’s just business.
Last edited by From a distance; 12th Jul 2020 at 22:45.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Cesspit
Posts: 325
Originally Posted by From a distance
Devastating. Really. Not too much devastation obvious pre Covid. Contract compliance was akin to a mosquito attempting to bite a rhinos arse. I didn’t see one solitary example of anyone taking it further and working against the company.
Those that still have a job will continue to take flight plan fuel, do RETI etc.
For those still here Morale will improve when there is a plan. For those of us finding ourselves on the outside looking in, CX, HKG, HKG public won’t give a damn about our Morale. It’s just business.
Those that still have a job will continue to take flight plan fuel, do RETI etc.
For those still here Morale will improve when there is a plan. For those of us finding ourselves on the outside looking in, CX, HKG, HKG public won’t give a damn about our Morale. It’s just business.
Fear of losing a job can be every bit as motivational as the reward of a pay rise. I’d be guessing but after the restructure is complete anyone still left here will probably have a sense of relief rather than a destructive bitterness.
I know it’s hard for pilots to do but don’t think this is all about yourselves. 90% of the company employees from cabin crew to check in staff to engineers to the sales team don’t have a LIFO clause in their contracts. Yet they are still here just like us. The company is formulating a restructuring plan and once approved it will be implemented. The timeframe to formulate the plan can be questioned, but it’s fanciful to suggest the timeframe is a result of the company “not liking” one clause in one employee groups contracts that is worth no more than the legislation that makes the contract binding.
Again it’s hard for control freaks to get their heads around they aren’t in control of aspects of their future. This belief that it won’t be me because of my seniority number/my contract/my overseas base/my Hong Kong base/my PR status/my title/insert self preservation excuse here, is a case study in human psychology.
The sooner you accept it could quite possibly be you and formulate a plan B that doesn’t involve studying the seniority list then the better off you and your family will be.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: All over
Posts: 179
Originally Posted by Progress Wanchai
Exactly.
Fear of losing a job can be every bit as motivational as the reward of a pay rise. I’d be guessing but after the restructure is complete anyone still left here will probably have a sense of relief rather than a destructive bitterness.
I know it’s hard for pilots to do but don’t think this is all about yourselves. 90% of the company employees from cabin crew to check in staff to engineers to the sales team don’t have a LIFO clause in their contracts. Yet they are still here just like us. The company is formulating a restructuring plan and once approved it will be implemented. The timeframe to formulate the plan can be questioned, but it’s fanciful to suggest the timeframe is a result of the company “not liking” one clause in one employee groups contracts that is worth no more than the legislation that makes the contract binding.
Again it’s hard for control freaks to get their heads around they aren’t in control of aspects of their future. This belief that it won’t be me because of my seniority number/my contract/my overseas base/my Hong Kong base/my PR status/my title/insert self preservation excuse here, is a case study in human psychology.
The sooner you accept it could quite possibly be you and formulate a plan B that doesn’t involve studying the seniority list then the better off you and your family will be.
Fear of losing a job can be every bit as motivational as the reward of a pay rise. I’d be guessing but after the restructure is complete anyone still left here will probably have a sense of relief rather than a destructive bitterness.
I know it’s hard for pilots to do but don’t think this is all about yourselves. 90% of the company employees from cabin crew to check in staff to engineers to the sales team don’t have a LIFO clause in their contracts. Yet they are still here just like us. The company is formulating a restructuring plan and once approved it will be implemented. The timeframe to formulate the plan can be questioned, but it’s fanciful to suggest the timeframe is a result of the company “not liking” one clause in one employee groups contracts that is worth no more than the legislation that makes the contract binding.
Again it’s hard for control freaks to get their heads around they aren’t in control of aspects of their future. This belief that it won’t be me because of my seniority number/my contract/my overseas base/my Hong Kong base/my PR status/my title/insert self preservation excuse here, is a case study in human psychology.
The sooner you accept it could quite possibly be you and formulate a plan B that doesn’t involve studying the seniority list then the better off you and your family will be.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: CLK
Posts: 362
All valid points, but no reason to ignore the very part of a contract that was established and agreed upon to cater for events such as this one.
Ultimately the COS have a 3 month notice to terminate (or payment in lieu) clause.
Ultimately the COS have a 3 month notice to terminate (or payment in lieu) clause.
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 125
Originally Posted by Farman Biplane
All valid points, but no reason to ignore the very part of a contract that was established and agreed upon to cater for events such as this one.
Ultimately the COS have a 3 month notice to terminate (or payment in lieu) clause.
Ultimately the COS have a 3 month notice to terminate (or payment in lieu) clause.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by AllWobbly
Unless the business you work for is insolvent
I’m quite fatigued by loudmouth brats claiming protection derived purely from cheapness. That’s a ridiculous claim and one that should be firmly rebuked every time it is raised. It comes from a place of entitlement and ignorance. Pay your dues young pilots. The possibility of furlough is and was reality for every pilot on any seniority list, ever. I swear this new generation has lost the plot.
Who raised these twats? Oh, that’s right, we did. We really did a horrible job. Where did we go wrong? I honestly tried, but obviously failed. Perhaps the influence of technology has convinced these cretins that they can simply ignore the generations preceding them. They want what they want when they want it. No waiting! Socialism now! To hell with the consequences. If it feels good, do it.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: china
Age: 51
Posts: 81
Lets not forget most airlines "may" "Could" or "Possibly" lay off thousands. Its not happened for pilots at BA, and Virgin are now sitting pretty due to
Brandson ringing up his financial mates. Would you really invest a trust fund in an airline over the next 5 years?
The CX and more predominantly KA market is China driven. A global back lash against China will affect yields. No need for 16 flights to PVG every day.
I doubt there will be redundancies. More likely no recruitment and natural wastage. The Gov have bailed the group out, so no issues this year.
CX management will have to show willing though. A drive for efficiencies, streamlining ... Oh , I nearly forgot, that's been going on for the last 2 years, and the net result is ?
Yep, it may suck in HK, but its safer than the rest of the world. Just don't complain about the system to anyone, everyone's being watched by big brother now LOL.
Brandson ringing up his financial mates. Would you really invest a trust fund in an airline over the next 5 years?
The CX and more predominantly KA market is China driven. A global back lash against China will affect yields. No need for 16 flights to PVG every day.
I doubt there will be redundancies. More likely no recruitment and natural wastage. The Gov have bailed the group out, so no issues this year.
CX management will have to show willing though. A drive for efficiencies, streamlining ... Oh , I nearly forgot, that's been going on for the last 2 years, and the net result is ?
Yep, it may suck in HK, but its safer than the rest of the world. Just don't complain about the system to anyone, everyone's being watched by big brother now LOL.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 383
Originally Posted by doolay
Actually, it's been going on for the last 27 years.
Who, of those around at the time, could forget the silver haired gerbil master and the "commitment days" of 1994.
The classic upside down graph.
