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CX Shares slip below HK8

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CX Shares slip below HK8

Old 11th Jul 2020, 09:48
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
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Originally Posted by kahaha View Post
Shares in CX at hk$6.8 at the end of trading today.
The slide continues, yet what is actually being done to stem the losses?

No layoffs, why? BA 12000 jobs
VA has shed 500 pilots . Ryanair 3000 pilots.
These airlines are now recovering.

Will business ever return to pre covid levels?
Not for years . There is growing anti china sentiment amoung the populations of the developed world. Common folk are trying to avoid Chinese produced products. Currently a different task, but the momentum is building .

But cx management think air travel via hk will rebound before the cash and bonuses run out .

Who knows. Iím betting the shares will continue their slide , the airline will have to lay off some of all those folks they kerp at cx city .

I mean , what do they all really do for those 90 min lunch breaks in the cx canteen?

At the moment I reckon (my guess):
1. Looking at which routes will be viable
2. Working out fleet and headcount reductions
3. Spending a lot of time with lawyers to avoid court cases and seeing how much room they have to manoeuvre re contracts, seniority, residency etc.
4. as per 3 but working out how to implement a new contracts

The bailout gives them breathing space thatís all
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Old 11th Jul 2020, 17:09
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by AllWobbly View Post
At the moment I reckon (my guess):
1. Looking at which routes will be viable
2. Working out fleet and headcount reductions
3. Spending a lot of time with lawyers to avoid court cases and seeing how much room they have to manoeuvre re contracts, seniority, residency etc.
4. as per 3 but working out how to implement a new contracts

The bailout gives them breathing space thatís all
Thatís a pretty expensive way to take oneís time figuring out what to do. I bet wartime generals wish they had nine months to figure it all out too, but they donít, never have, never will. Good leadership involves making good decisions IN A TIMELY fashion, not simply taking your sweet time. The pilot contracts have provision for redundancies, either use it or get off the pot. If CX doesnít like LIFO, then they should never have put it into the contracts.
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Old 11th Jul 2020, 21:59
  #23 (permalink)  
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The are reluctant to loose the D scale brush wing brigade. A third the price of a B scale FO and when they make command, a much broader saving .

I suspect voluntary redundancies , extended unpaid first . CX donít want to make anyone redundant, they are the National airline .
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Old 12th Jul 2020, 02:25
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cxorcist View Post
Thatís a pretty expensive way to take oneís time figuring out what to do. I bet wartime generals wish they had nine months to figure it all out too, but they donít, never have, never will. Good leadership involves making good decisions IN A TIMELY fashion, not simply taking your sweet time. The pilot contracts have provision for redundancies, either use it or get off the pot. If CX doesnít like LIFO, then they should never have put it into the contracts.

Sure is. As I said itís purely a guess. I believe they thought it would be over by the summer, now perhaps by Autumn. Failing that after a vaccine is produced.
Have you seen the latest from BA an airline operating in an environment with ďsolidĒ protections?
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Old 12th Jul 2020, 02:29
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by kahaha View Post
And so has been the case for the last few months, the sinking feeling of the plummeting value of Cathay Pacific. Another 10% and we will be in uncharted territory regarding possible takeover bids or share swops. Cant be long before Qatar wants an increased slice.

But before then , thereís that small matter of fat cat pilots sat on their backsides , ( literally) earning far too much in the current climate.

But hey, at least the hk$ is strong and the GBP weak . Very weak, time to cash in and run to retirement. Lol.

No thanks
Coronation Street, the weather, the food (Iíd be an even fatter cat) , the tax , breakfast tv and the tabloids.
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Old 12th Jul 2020, 06:01
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by AllWobbly View Post
Sure is. As I said itís purely a guess. I believe they thought it would be over by the summer, now perhaps by Autumn. Failing that after a vaccine is produced.
Have you seen the latest from BA an airline operating in an environment with ďsolidĒ protections?
No, and I donít care (although I wish them all the best) because itís completely irrelevant. Their contract has nothing to do with ours and vice versa.
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Old 12th Jul 2020, 06:47
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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If CX doesn’t like LIFO, then they should never have put it into the contracts.
I don't think they like LIFO very much, they surreptiously removed it from POS18 a month ago as they can amend it 'from time to time.'
However it is very clearly written in the rest of our COS's.

Last edited by doolay; 12th Jul 2020 at 13:00. Reason: Spellen
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Old 12th Jul 2020, 12:30
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cxorcist View Post
No, and I donít care (although I wish them all the best) because itís completely irrelevant. Their contract has nothing to do with ours and vice versa.
I donít agree. I would argue that BA crews with BALPA behind them have always been in a stronger position. The reason itís relevant is if it can happen to BA it can happen to anyone.
I hope you are right.
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Old 12th Jul 2020, 16:35
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by AllWobbly View Post
I donít agree. I would argue that BA crews with BALPA behind them have always been in a stronger position. The reason itís relevant is if it can happen to BA it can happen to anyone.
I hope you are right.
If CX renegs on their contracts, watch the morale amongst pilots descend to never seen lows, and itís been REALLY bad at times in the last three decades. By now, CX knows the devastating consequences of having crews work against the Company.
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Old 12th Jul 2020, 22:32
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cxorcist View Post
If CX renegs on their contracts, watch the morale amongst pilots descend to never seen lows, and it’s been REALLY bad at times in the last three decades. By now, CX knows the devastating consequences of having crews work against the Company.

Devastating. Really. Not too much devastation obvious pre Covid. Contract compliance was akin to a mosquito attempting to bite a rhinos arse. I didn’t see one solitary example of anyone taking it further and working against the company.

Those that still have a job will continue to take flight plan fuel, do RETI etc.

For those still here Morale will improve when there is a plan. For those of us finding ourselves on the outside looking in, CX, HKG, HKG public won’t give a damn about our Morale. It’s just business.

Last edited by From a distance; 12th Jul 2020 at 22:45.
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Old 13th Jul 2020, 02:41
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by From a distance View Post
Devastating. Really. Not too much devastation obvious pre Covid. Contract compliance was akin to a mosquito attempting to bite a rhinos arse. I didnít see one solitary example of anyone taking it further and working against the company.

Those that still have a job will continue to take flight plan fuel, do RETI etc.

For those still here Morale will improve when there is a plan. For those of us finding ourselves on the outside looking in, CX, HKG, HKG public wonít give a damn about our Morale. Itís just business.
Exactly.

Fear of losing a job can be every bit as motivational as the reward of a pay rise. Iíd be guessing but after the restructure is complete anyone still left here will probably have a sense of relief rather than a destructive bitterness.

I know itís hard for pilots to do but donít think this is all about yourselves. 90% of the company employees from cabin crew to check in staff to engineers to the sales team donít have a LIFO clause in their contracts. Yet they are still here just like us. The company is formulating a restructuring plan and once approved it will be implemented. The timeframe to formulate the plan can be questioned, but itís fanciful to suggest the timeframe is a result of the company ďnot likingĒ one clause in one employee groups contracts that is worth no more than the legislation that makes the contract binding.

Again itís hard for control freaks to get their heads around they arenít in control of aspects of their future. This belief that it wonít be me because of my seniority number/my contract/my overseas base/my Hong Kong base/my PR status/my title/insert self preservation excuse here, is a case study in human psychology.
The sooner you accept it could quite possibly be you and formulate a plan B that doesnít involve studying the seniority list then the better off you and your family will be.
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Old 13th Jul 2020, 02:46
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Progress Wanchai View Post
Exactly.

Fear of losing a job can be every bit as motivational as the reward of a pay rise. Iíd be guessing but after the restructure is complete anyone still left here will probably have a sense of relief rather than a destructive bitterness.

I know itís hard for pilots to do but donít think this is all about yourselves. 90% of the company employees from cabin crew to check in staff to engineers to the sales team donít have a LIFO clause in their contracts. Yet they are still here just like us. The company is formulating a restructuring plan and once approved it will be implemented. The timeframe to formulate the plan can be questioned, but itís fanciful to suggest the timeframe is a result of the company ďnot likingĒ one clause in one employee groups contracts that is worth no more than the legislation that makes the contract binding.

Again itís hard for control freaks to get their heads around they arenít in control of aspects of their future. This belief that it wonít be me because of my seniority number/my contract/my overseas base/my Hong Kong base/my PR status/my title/insert self preservation excuse here, is a case study in human psychology.
The sooner you accept it could quite possibly be you and formulate a plan B that doesnít involve studying the seniority list then the better off you and your family will be.
well said...
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Old 13th Jul 2020, 04:14
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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All valid points, but no reason to ignore the very part of a contract that was established and agreed upon to cater for events such as this one.
Ultimately the COS have a 3 month notice to terminate (or payment in lieu) clause.
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Old 13th Jul 2020, 05:29
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Farman Biplane View Post
All valid points, but no reason to ignore the very part of a contract that was established and agreed upon to cater for events such as this one.
Ultimately the COS have a 3 month notice to terminate (or payment in lieu) clause.
Unless the business you work for is insolvent
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Old 13th Jul 2020, 11:59
  #35 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by AllWobbly View Post
Unless the business you work for is insolvent
or if they just pay him the 3 months?
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Old 13th Jul 2020, 15:50
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by AllWobbly View Post
Unless the business you work for is insolvent
If CX goes insolvent, then the whole conversation is moot. The point is to keep CX from insolvency by right sizing the airline to meet demand. We have a mechanism for that, so either use it or negotiate with the pilot unions for something different (more basings, early retirements, partial pay leave of absences, etc).

Iím quite fatigued by loudmouth brats claiming protection derived purely from cheapness. Thatís a ridiculous claim and one that should be firmly rebuked every time it is raised. It comes from a place of entitlement and ignorance. Pay your dues young pilots. The possibility of furlough is and was reality for every pilot on any seniority list, ever. I swear this new generation has lost the plot.

Who raised these twats? Oh, thatís right, we did. We really did a horrible job. Where did we go wrong? I honestly tried, but obviously failed. Perhaps the influence of technology has convinced these cretins that they can simply ignore the generations preceding them. They want what they want when they want it. No waiting! Socialism now! To hell with the consequences. If it feels good, do it.
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Old 15th Jul 2020, 09:51
  #37 (permalink)  
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Lets not forget most airlines "may" "Could" or "Possibly" lay off thousands. Its not happened for pilots at BA, and Virgin are now sitting pretty due to
Brandson ringing up his financial mates. Would you really invest a trust fund in an airline over the next 5 years?

The CX and more predominantly KA market is China driven. A global back lash against China will affect yields. No need for 16 flights to PVG every day.

I doubt there will be redundancies. More likely no recruitment and natural wastage. The Gov have bailed the group out, so no issues this year.

CX management will have to show willing though. A drive for efficiencies, streamlining ... Oh , I nearly forgot, that's been going on for the last 2 years, and the net result is ?

Yep, it may suck in HK, but its safer than the rest of the world. Just don't complain about the system to anyone, everyone's being watched by big brother now LOL.
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Old 16th Jul 2020, 01:14
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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A drive for efficiencies, streamlining ... Oh , I nearly forgot, that's been going on for the last 2 years,
Actually, it's been going on for the last 27 years.
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Old 16th Jul 2020, 02:45
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by doolay View Post
Actually, it's been going on for the last 27 years.
Yes indeed!
Who, of those around at the time, could forget the silver haired gerbil master and the "commitment days" of 1994.
The classic upside down graph.

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Old 17th Jul 2020, 11:22
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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all those hoping for LIFO "because it's in our contract"... you are aware who your employer is right?
grabs popcorn
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