Unpaid leave offer
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
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I must opine...
CX Management has sowed the seeds of hate, division, and derision towards its pilots for the better part of three decades. Now, as has become their norm in times of distress, they come to the pilots with their hands out looking for relief from wage obligations. In Jewish culture, that’s called chutzpah.
Let me ask those of you perhaps hoodwinked by such a request. Will CX generously share profits in the good times? Or will they simply increase the dividend to shareholders and their own bonuses? I suspect the latter.
CX hasn’t paid a substantive profit share since 2010, and 2007 before that. Unlike Delta who just paid its employees 2 months as a bonus totaling $1.6 billion USD, CX has all but done away with profit sharing bonuses such that they can pay themselves and shareholders more.
So let me ask you... Is this fair? CX comes to employees for concessions in hard times, but then does not share the spoils in good times. Why would you voluntarily subject yourselves to such unfairness?
If this is the only way for you to get time off that you want or need, by all means, fill your boots. However, don’t submit yourselves to management pressure tactics. Have some backbone and just say no.
CX Management has sowed the seeds of hate, division, and derision towards its pilots for the better part of three decades. Now, as has become their norm in times of distress, they come to the pilots with their hands out looking for relief from wage obligations. In Jewish culture, that’s called chutzpah.
Let me ask those of you perhaps hoodwinked by such a request. Will CX generously share profits in the good times? Or will they simply increase the dividend to shareholders and their own bonuses? I suspect the latter.
CX hasn’t paid a substantive profit share since 2010, and 2007 before that. Unlike Delta who just paid its employees 2 months as a bonus totaling $1.6 billion USD, CX has all but done away with profit sharing bonuses such that they can pay themselves and shareholders more.
So let me ask you... Is this fair? CX comes to employees for concessions in hard times, but then does not share the spoils in good times. Why would you voluntarily subject yourselves to such unfairness?
If this is the only way for you to get time off that you want or need, by all means, fill your boots. However, don’t submit yourselves to management pressure tactics. Have some backbone and just say no.
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: HKG
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Unpaid Leave? Get f**ked!
Last SLS $ was paid back except to the Captains (who still lost a week). The company wasn't going to pay anyone, but they gave 13th month to the HKG office workers and the non-HKG employees complained (rightly so) that they had given 3 weeks unpaid leave and this $ was now being passed onto the HKG employees.
Last year, yet again, 13th Month was in effect paid to all other employees, the pilots were shafted again
No one has even apologised for the billions gambled away on fuel hedges
There is no mention of what the senior managers are going to contribute
I might consider agreeing to SLS if:
Last SLS $ was paid back except to the Captains (who still lost a week). The company wasn't going to pay anyone, but they gave 13th month to the HKG office workers and the non-HKG employees complained (rightly so) that they had given 3 weeks unpaid leave and this $ was now being passed onto the HKG employees.
Last year, yet again, 13th Month was in effect paid to all other employees, the pilots were shafted again
No one has even apologised for the billions gambled away on fuel hedges
There is no mention of what the senior managers are going to contribute
I might consider agreeing to SLS if:
1. There is a promise to pay me back when cash flow improves
2. The profit share system is changed so we actually get profit share when the company makes money
3. 13th month is either paid to everyone or no one. Stop shafting the pilots
2. The profit share system is changed so we actually get profit share when the company makes money
3. 13th month is either paid to everyone or no one. Stop shafting the pilots
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: HK
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After the Captains didn't get paid back SLS... sorry..
After no profit share.. sorry.
Thrilled I left, and hoping no one is dumb enough to take the leave. You'll get the time off paid if simply grow a pair.
After no profit share.. sorry.
Thrilled I left, and hoping no one is dumb enough to take the leave. You'll get the time off paid if simply grow a pair.
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Originally Posted by unitedabx
which was repaid to all EXCEPT captains at the end of the year.
All had their LWOP repaid in full, except the captains who only received 3/4 of it. So you actually only took 1 week unpaid leave, and had 3 extra paid weeks leave that year, ie 9 weeks paid leave.
Was it unfair you didn't get 100% back? Yes. But don't make out like you got completely stiffed.
All foreign pilots working for China Southern Airlines, Hainan Airlines, and a host of smaller mainland Chinese carriers have been placed on indefinite unpaid leave, according to multiple sources and a memo seen by the Post.
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...s-among-crisis
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...s-among-crisis
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Asia
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Originally Posted by controlledrest
Unpaid Leave? Get f**ked!
Last SLS $ was paid back except to the Captains (who still lost a week). The company wasn't going to pay anyone, but they gave 13th month to the HKG office workers and the non-HKG employees complained (rightly so) that they had given 3 weeks unpaid leave and this $ was now being passed onto the HKG employees.
Last year, yet again, 13th Month was in effect paid to all other employees, the pilots were shafted again
No one has even apologised for the billions gambled away on fuel hedges
There is no mention of what the senior managers are going to contribute
I might consider agreeing to SLS if:
Last SLS $ was paid back except to the Captains (who still lost a week). The company wasn't going to pay anyone, but they gave 13th month to the HKG office workers and the non-HKG employees complained (rightly so) that they had given 3 weeks unpaid leave and this $ was now being passed onto the HKG employees.
Last year, yet again, 13th Month was in effect paid to all other employees, the pilots were shafted again
No one has even apologised for the billions gambled away on fuel hedges
There is no mention of what the senior managers are going to contribute
I might consider agreeing to SLS if:
1. There is a promise to pay me back when cash flow improves
2. The profit share system is changed so we actually get profit share when the company makes money
3. 13th month is either paid to everyone or no one. Stop shafting the pilots
2. The profit share system is changed so we actually get profit share when the company makes money
3. 13th month is either paid to everyone or no one. Stop shafting the pilots
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: FL310
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You guys realise the new UPL policy doesn’t pay housing or any allowances now while your off.
Conveniently introduced just before the plea for help!
Should I just tell the landlord I won’t be paying rent for the next 3 weeks? He should be fine with that...
Conveniently introduced just before the plea for help!
Should I just tell the landlord I won’t be paying rent for the next 3 weeks? He should be fine with that...
Originally Posted by BubbaJ
You guys realise the new UPL policy doesn’t pay housing or any allowances now while your off.
Conveniently introduced just before the plea for help!
Should I just tell the landlord I won’t be paying rent for the next 3 weeks? He should be fine with that...
Conveniently introduced just before the plea for help!
Should I just tell the landlord I won’t be paying rent for the next 3 weeks? He should be fine with that...
If they don’t offer housing and other benefits I can’t see there being an unseemly rush amongst senior guys..the very demographic who cost them the most.
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Australia
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Originally Posted by Globocnik
True. Unpaid leave, strategic leave (?) or something similar with a bonus, and whatever this will be. No housing, no edu, medical benefits still retained...if you can find a clinic that will let you in.
If they don’t offer housing and other benefits I can’t see there being an unseemly rush amongst senior guys..the very demographic who cost them the most.
If they don’t offer housing and other benefits I can’t see there being an unseemly rush amongst senior guys..the very demographic who cost them the most.
Join Date: Sep 2014
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Originally Posted by YeahNahYeah
This will be a black mark against anyone who might want to apply for a TC position in the future!
Laughable.
CX won't exist (as it is now) in this time next year. Cathay Dragon will be gone.
Any expat with a sense of self respect will have left.
Show is over folks. This will make SARS look like Chicken Pox.
Originally Posted by Dilbert68
Total and utter bullsh!t You don't have a clue what you are talking about so just shut up.
Join Date: May 2007
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So the entire Group take 3 weeks unpaid leave and then when Hong Kong Airlines finally dies an ungrateful death, in March, CX will be scrambling to “help out” the Hong Kong people and fly the Hong Kong Airlines cancelled flights, leading to everyone being recalled from their critical unpaid leave. This will be followed by a new COS20, offered to those poor HKCAD ATPL holding ex-HKA out of work pilots to “help” them out. Possible/probable?
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Sorry Aus2, I have to agree with Dilbert68. 13th month was incorporated into salary scales for BASED pilots only. Every time someone tries to slip into the conversation the notion that ALL pilots got 13th month incorporated in their salary IT MUST BE SHOUTED DOWN.
Originally Posted by unitedabx
KA pilots have NEVER once supported their CX colleagues. You got your 13th month for contractual reasons and you could pay it back. KA is effectively grounded and CX will carry it again because it is part of the "group". But this "group" only emerges when it suits Swires most times its FUGIMAR ( F++k You Jack I'm All Right ).
We'll see how many KA guys volunteer their 3 weeks away. During SARS it was less that 25%. In CX it was nearly 99%.
We'll see how many KA guys volunteer their 3 weeks away. During SARS it was less that 25%. In CX it was nearly 99%.
I remember once being asked at the Kai Tax aviation club bar why KA pilots had pleats in the front of their uniform pants, "its because they need the room" was the obvious answer.
Originally Posted by unitedabx
KA pilots have NEVER once supported their CX colleagues. You got your 13th month for contractual reasons and you could pay it back. KA is effectively grounded and CX will carry it again because it is part of the "group". But this "group" only emerges when it suits Swires most times its FUGIMAR ( F++k You Jack I'm All Right ).
We'll see how many KA guys volunteer their 3 weeks away. During SARS it was less that 25%. In CX it was nearly 99%.
We'll see how many KA guys volunteer their 3 weeks away. During SARS it was less that 25%. In CX it was nearly 99%.
Originally Posted by FreemaninHK
Laughable.
CX won't exist (as it is now) in this time next year. Cathay Dragon will be gone.
Any expat with a sense of self respect will have left.
Show is over folks. This will make SARS look like Chicken Pox.
CX won't exist (as it is now) in this time next year. Cathay Dragon will be gone.
Any expat with a sense of self respect will have left.
Show is over folks. This will make SARS look like Chicken Pox.
Join Date: Oct 2019
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I know there is a lot of pent up anger towards many things “Fragrant Harbor” but let’s not confuse the issue of CX of old vs new, Hong Kong old vs new. This is a bloody disgrace no matter how you twist it. How many COO, CFO, CEO types are getting unpaid leave? My guess, ZERO. How many upper management types are getting unpaid leave? My guess, ZERO. Yes this is a serious situation but looking from the outside in it’s nothing but a greedy money grab by CX laying waste to their poor crews and employees. These people still have families to support which now becomes untenable. Not the same for the previously mentioned “those in charge”. I hope CX is wrought with defections with those finding other streams of income so when it comes time to call them back, nobody picks up the phone.
