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Unpaid leave offer

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Unpaid leave offer

Old 5th Feb 2020, 21:46
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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I must opine...

CX Management has sowed the seeds of hate, division, and derision towards its pilots for the better part of three decades. Now, as has become their norm in times of distress, they come to the pilots with their hands out looking for relief from wage obligations. In Jewish culture, that’s called chutzpah.

Let me ask those of you perhaps hoodwinked by such a request. Will CX generously share profits in the good times? Or will they simply increase the dividend to shareholders and their own bonuses? I suspect the latter.

CX hasn’t paid a substantive profit share since 2010, and 2007 before that. Unlike Delta who just paid its employees 2 months as a bonus totaling $1.6 billion USD, CX has all but done away with profit sharing bonuses such that they can pay themselves and shareholders more.

So let me ask you... Is this fair? CX comes to employees for concessions in hard times, but then does not share the spoils in good times. Why would you voluntarily subject yourselves to such unfairness?

If this is the only way for you to get time off that you want or need, by all means, fill your boots. However, don’t submit yourselves to management pressure tactics. Have some backbone and just say no.

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Old 5th Feb 2020, 22:28
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Amen, CXorcist.
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 22:32
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Unpaid Leave? Get f**ked!

Last SLS $ was paid back except to the Captains (who still lost a week). The company wasn't going to pay anyone, but they gave 13th month to the HKG office workers and the non-HKG employees complained (rightly so) that they had given 3 weeks unpaid leave and this $ was now being passed onto the HKG employees.

Last year, yet again, 13th Month was in effect paid to all other employees, the pilots were shafted again

No one has even apologised for the billions gambled away on fuel hedges

There is no mention of what the senior managers are going to contribute

I might consider agreeing to SLS if:
1. There is a promise to pay me back when cash flow improves
2. The profit share system is changed so we actually get profit share when the company makes money
3. 13th month is either paid to everyone or no one. Stop shafting the pilots
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 22:54
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After the Captains didn't get paid back SLS... sorry..

After no profit share.. sorry.

Thrilled I left, and hoping no one is dumb enough to take the leave. You'll get the time off paid if simply grow a pair.

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Old 6th Feb 2020, 00:49
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Jack is spelt with a J
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Old 6th Feb 2020, 01:42
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Originally Posted by unitedabx View Post
which was repaid to all EXCEPT captains at the end of the year.
Well thats not quite the truth is it.

All had their LWOP repaid in full, except the captains who only received 3/4 of it. So you actually only took 1 week unpaid leave, and had 3 extra paid weeks leave that year, ie 9 weeks paid leave.
Was it unfair you didn't get 100% back? Yes. But don't make out like you got completely stiffed.
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Old 6th Feb 2020, 04:08
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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All foreign pilots working for China Southern Airlines, Hainan Airlines, and a host of smaller mainland Chinese carriers have been placed on indefinite unpaid leave, according to multiple sources and a memo seen by the Post.

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...s-among-crisis
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Old 6th Feb 2020, 05:13
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Thumbs up

Originally Posted by controlledrest View Post
Unpaid Leave? Get f**ked!

Last SLS $ was paid back except to the Captains (who still lost a week). The company wasn't going to pay anyone, but they gave 13th month to the HKG office workers and the non-HKG employees complained (rightly so) that they had given 3 weeks unpaid leave and this $ was now being passed onto the HKG employees.

Last year, yet again, 13th Month was in effect paid to all other employees, the pilots were shafted again

No one has even apologised for the billions gambled away on fuel hedges

There is no mention of what the senior managers are going to contribute

I might consider agreeing to SLS if:
1. There is a promise to pay me back when cash flow improves
2. The profit share system is changed so we actually get profit share when the company makes money
3. 13th month is either paid to everyone or no one. Stop shafting the pilots
NAILED it!!!!!!
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Old 6th Feb 2020, 05:18
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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You guys realise the new UPL policy doesn’t pay housing or any allowances now while your off.

Conveniently introduced just before the plea for help!

Should I just tell the landlord I won’t be paying rent for the next 3 weeks? He should be fine with that...
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Old 6th Feb 2020, 05:46
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Originally Posted by BubbaJ View Post
You guys realise the new UPL policy doesn’t pay housing or any allowances now while your off.

Conveniently introduced just before the plea for help!

Should I just tell the landlord I won’t be paying rent for the next 3 weeks? He should be fine with that...
True. Unpaid leave, strategic leave (?) or something similar with a bonus, and whatever this will be. No housing, no edu, medical benefits still retained...if you can find a clinic that will let you in.
If they don’t offer housing and other benefits I can’t see there being an unseemly rush amongst senior guys..the very demographic who cost them the most.
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Old 6th Feb 2020, 07:51
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Seriously???.......
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Old 6th Feb 2020, 09:25
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Originally Posted by Globocnik View Post
True. Unpaid leave, strategic leave (?) or something similar with a bonus, and whatever this will be. No housing, no edu, medical benefits still retained...if you can find a clinic that will let you in.
If they don’t offer housing and other benefits I can’t see there being an unseemly rush amongst senior guys..the very demographic who cost them the most.
This will be a black mark against anyone who might want to apply for a TC position in the future!

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Old 6th Feb 2020, 14:21
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Originally Posted by YeahNahYeah View Post
This will be a black mark against anyone who might want to apply for a TC position in the future!

Laughable.

CX won't exist (as it is now) in this time next year. Cathay Dragon will be gone.

Any expat with a sense of self respect will have left.

Show is over folks. This will make SARS look like Chicken Pox.

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Old 6th Feb 2020, 22:48
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Originally Posted by Dilbert68 View Post
Total and utter bullsh!t You don't have a clue what you are talking about so just shut up.
“so just shut up” ?! - are you kidding me - I’m assuming you’re just frustrated because school is closed for another 2 weeks and you’re sick of the helper ?
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 00:12
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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So the entire Group take 3 weeks unpaid leave and then when Hong Kong Airlines finally dies an ungrateful death, in March, CX will be scrambling to “help out” the Hong Kong people and fly the Hong Kong Airlines cancelled flights, leading to everyone being recalled from their critical unpaid leave. This will be followed by a new COS20, offered to those poor HKCAD ATPL holding ex-HKA out of work pilots to “help” them out. Possible/probable?
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 00:57
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Sorry Aus2, I have to agree with Dilbert68. 13th month was incorporated into salary scales for BASED pilots only. Every time someone tries to slip into the conversation the notion that ALL pilots got 13th month incorporated in their salary IT MUST BE SHOUTED DOWN.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 02:40
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Originally Posted by unitedabx View Post
KA pilots have NEVER once supported their CX colleagues. You got your 13th month for contractual reasons and you could pay it back. KA is effectively grounded and CX will carry it again because it is part of the "group". But this "group" only emerges when it suits Swires most times its FUGIMAR ( F++k You Jack I'm All Right ).
We'll see how many KA guys volunteer their 3 weeks away. During SARS it was less that 25%. In CX it was nearly 99%.
Are you serious? CX pilots didn't even support their own 49'ers but rather ducked for cover lest they be next. Seriously weak and now they wonder why CX is such a crappy job.

I remember once being asked at the Kai Tax aviation club bar why KA pilots had pleats in the front of their uniform pants, "its because they need the room" was the obvious answer.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 03:15
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Originally Posted by unitedabx View Post
KA pilots have NEVER once supported their CX colleagues. You got your 13th month for contractual reasons and you could pay it back. KA is effectively grounded and CX will carry it again because it is part of the "group". But this "group" only emerges when it suits Swires most times its FUGIMAR ( F++k You Jack I'm All Right ).
We'll see how many KA guys volunteer their 3 weeks away. During SARS it was less that 25%. In CX it was nearly 99%.
I forgot to mention that during SARs the majority of KA pilots offered to take unpaid leave but only a small proportion got it as KA did not alter their operation to any great extent. Maybe it was 25%, mostly A scale obviously, but you really need to get your facts straight.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 03:20
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Originally Posted by FreemaninHK View Post
Laughable.

CX won't exist (as it is now) in this time next year. Cathay Dragon will be gone.

Any expat with a sense of self respect will have left.

Show is over folks. This will make SARS look like Chicken Pox.
You wish, you poor sadmaninhk.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 06:39
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I know there is a lot of pent up anger towards many things “Fragrant Harbor” but let’s not confuse the issue of CX of old vs new, Hong Kong old vs new. This is a bloody disgrace no matter how you twist it. How many COO, CFO, CEO types are getting unpaid leave? My guess, ZERO. How many upper management types are getting unpaid leave? My guess, ZERO. Yes this is a serious situation but looking from the outside in it’s nothing but a greedy money grab by CX laying waste to their poor crews and employees. These people still have families to support which now becomes untenable. Not the same for the previously mentioned “those in charge”. I hope CX is wrought with defections with those finding other streams of income so when it comes time to call them back, nobody picks up the phone.
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