What news on the vote?
Clarence my trusty computer and I had reached a pact to stay out of this bile and vitriol until the long hot summer was over. Well Clarence has kept his end of the bargain but those toys in the lobby of the Headland prove my undoing.
The math on the vote is compelling. A larger margin than last time but in a smaller pond.
It was not that long ago that Demery said to Turnbull that if he (Nigel) was an impediment to progress then he would get out of the way.
Management won't deal with Demery. Demery does not see himself as an impediment. What am I missing here??
Obviously the AOA finances are under stress. Now we are likely to see another few hundred depart in dribs and drabs over the next 6 months. Many have stuck it out for the 49ers but it is now obvious this will not be resolved any time soon. Quite simply the only way to solve the 49er issue is to bake a very humble pie. What has been dished up is a curry.
I'm with Shortly. The vote for Nigel was the kiss of death to the AOA. A testament to that little bit of lemming in us all.
Sorry Clarence!
The math on the vote is compelling. A larger margin than last time but in a smaller pond.
It was not that long ago that Demery said to Turnbull that if he (Nigel) was an impediment to progress then he would get out of the way.
Management won't deal with Demery. Demery does not see himself as an impediment. What am I missing here??
Obviously the AOA finances are under stress. Now we are likely to see another few hundred depart in dribs and drabs over the next 6 months. Many have stuck it out for the 49ers but it is now obvious this will not be resolved any time soon. Quite simply the only way to solve the 49er issue is to bake a very humble pie. What has been dished up is a curry.
I'm with Shortly. The vote for Nigel was the kiss of death to the AOA. A testament to that little bit of lemming in us all.
Sorry Clarence!
Action Started This Morning
From the front page news of the SCMP this morning, it appears that the action has started.
An AGM of the HKAOA was held this morning as well and reports are that Nigel and Phil will have talks on working together!
We were all wrong?
An AGM of the HKAOA was held this morning as well and reports are that Nigel and Phil will have talks on working together!
We were all wrong?
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shortly, by not being a member you are doing more to hang people out to dry than any member of the AOA. Your perception of some kind of offer is typical of your ilk ala Rossco or Phil, there was no offer of any reinstatement of any kind.
If you think the A Scale will be laughing all the way to the bank for very long without the AOA around you are sadly mistaken. The management of CX has repeatedly said they want their crew costs at the level of SQ, take a look at their deal, not even B Scale. It started in '99 and it ain't over, not by a long shot.
Have fun at the bank, lol.
If you think the A Scale will be laughing all the way to the bank for very long without the AOA around you are sadly mistaken. The management of CX has repeatedly said they want their crew costs at the level of SQ, take a look at their deal, not even B Scale. It started in '99 and it ain't over, not by a long shot.
Have fun at the bank, lol.
CX Profits Exceed Analysists Predictions
Cathay just announced half year profits increased 6.8% to HK$1.410 billion.
With looming HKAOA action, the post-meeting Press Conference might be interesting!
With looming HKAOA action, the post-meeting Press Conference might be interesting!
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I love the way we all try to identify/qualify each other. If I were an A scale I would be off flying my chopper or playing with my other toys paid for by CX. No I am here still wanting to prolong a career in a goddam good airline. I do not agree with the actions of the AOA over a long period of time. And there bloody well was an offer made a truly generous offer which the company are jolly glad was not accepted by the AOA, I will not say members of the AOA because it never got to them. Even if you repeat a lie a million times it does not become truth.
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Only 36% of CX pilots voted for ND.
Only 57% of CX pilots are voting members of the AOA.
150 have joined CX since the ban started.
200 have left the AOA since the 49ers were rightfully dismissed (but using totally the wrong process morally (but smart legal one)).
ND tells the membership in his first post election letter that the ban will be reconsidered, but tells the SCMP that industrial action is coming involving the more junior pilots.
What I think....ND finally sees that the AOA is fornicating itself, members are leaving and the ban is a bad joke. He will drop the ban, foresake some of the 49ers provided they receive 'fair treatment' and hope like hell for a resonable offer from CX which the membership will accept. If this doesn't happen, he will return to the membership telling them 'now is the time for action, we have done everything we can to reach agreement, but we now must act...' He will call for a sickout, strike etc...and he and a handfull of other fools will give it a go. CX will respond 'robustly'...and the AOA will be decimated.
Pitty...we do need an effective empoyee body....
Only 57% of CX pilots are voting members of the AOA.
150 have joined CX since the ban started.
200 have left the AOA since the 49ers were rightfully dismissed (but using totally the wrong process morally (but smart legal one)).
ND tells the membership in his first post election letter that the ban will be reconsidered, but tells the SCMP that industrial action is coming involving the more junior pilots.
What I think....ND finally sees that the AOA is fornicating itself, members are leaving and the ban is a bad joke. He will drop the ban, foresake some of the 49ers provided they receive 'fair treatment' and hope like hell for a resonable offer from CX which the membership will accept. If this doesn't happen, he will return to the membership telling them 'now is the time for action, we have done everything we can to reach agreement, but we now must act...' He will call for a sickout, strike etc...and he and a handfull of other fools will give it a go. CX will respond 'robustly'...and the AOA will be decimated.
Pitty...we do need an effective empoyee body....
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Yes indeed let the games begin. I sense a watered down campaign as Nigel knows that most of the membership doesn't have the heart for even what was attempted last year. Of those that do have heart only a handful have any power.
As a result the required pressure will not and can not be applied to management. (see previous post re numbers of potential players). In the end the AOA will be completely defeated but claim victory. The 49 ers will not have a job with CX ; maybe another contract will be signed but most of the holy grails will be abandoned.
The opportunity for the AOA to effect conditions for it's members has long past. If Nigel REALLY cared for the members; the clever thing to do would be not to run in the first place. Together with a different President, the termination of Mr Scargill and the removal of the War(ham) monger a dialouge may have been possible.
Flex; have you ever heard of Maths 101 ??
As a result the required pressure will not and can not be applied to management. (see previous post re numbers of potential players). In the end the AOA will be completely defeated but claim victory. The 49 ers will not have a job with CX ; maybe another contract will be signed but most of the holy grails will be abandoned.
The opportunity for the AOA to effect conditions for it's members has long past. If Nigel REALLY cared for the members; the clever thing to do would be not to run in the first place. Together with a different President, the termination of Mr Scargill and the removal of the War(ham) monger a dialouge may have been possible.
Flex; have you ever heard of Maths 101 ??
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I voted for Phil.
I will continue to pay to support the 49ers. I will support any action voted on by the membership. I will do whatever it takes to get the 49ers reinstated.
It could have been me.
Forget Phil, Nigel, politics, percentages. Support YOUR union. Lets get the 49ers back in the seat.
I will continue to pay to support the 49ers. I will support any action voted on by the membership. I will do whatever it takes to get the 49ers reinstated.
It could have been me.
Forget Phil, Nigel, politics, percentages. Support YOUR union. Lets get the 49ers back in the seat.
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Middle a good guy you must be, bravo. But don't you ever wonder why the Company fired the 49ers in the first place? What has 10 long boring years of industrial action achieved? Do you really believe the Company will negotiate with the current leadership? Even if all the pilots who support the pit bulls and their leaders go along with increased militancy do you think the company will suffer? Mate, all these are reasonable questions which you must consider before hanging yourself out to dry as well. The 49ers are martyrs of union ineptitude and they will not be coming home under the current situation. This is of course very sad but true. The only way forward was to elect a new committee, stop all action, make a concession or two and get back to the table. It is not only the 49ers who have my sympathy, but the hundreds more to follow if the union is not very, very careful.
No Pressure on Cathay Management
Hong Kong and International Newspaper, Radio and TV coverage of impending Industrial Action if CX management fail to commence talks with the HKAOA.
CX's Chairman struggling with pointed Industrial related questions at the post-profits announcement Press Conference.
CX's Director Corporate Development admitting that the Recruiting Ban was stopping "good" pilots from joining Cathay Pacific.
Absolutely no pressure at all. Operations normal.
CX's Chairman struggling with pointed Industrial related questions at the post-profits announcement Press Conference.
CX's Director Corporate Development admitting that the Recruiting Ban was stopping "good" pilots from joining Cathay Pacific.
Absolutely no pressure at all. Operations normal.
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What was he supposed to say Flexible? Well you guys are you about to do something or get off the pot? The battle for now is lost can't you see that or would you prefer complete annhialation of the AOA. I have not agreed with AOA strategies for many years but I still believe in the need for an Association of pilots. In a nice world the AOA would be close to both management decisions and the people it portends to represent. Watch this space, ND will call for increased action - it will not be forthcoming - ND will step down, honourably (lol) the 51ers will be left on the line.
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short(l)y
Idyllic, but impractical to wish for an association that would "be close to both management decisions and the people it portends to represent" as long as the management of Cathay take such a belligerent approach to its personnel relations. The next time you fly (or interact with non-management staff) ask a few questions about how they feel about the present state of affairs and Cathay’s management. You may be surprised to learn that the management of this airline is almost universally despised.
A well know-known and often quoted summation of Cathay in Airline (Management) Circles:
Idyllic, but impractical to wish for an association that would "be close to both management decisions and the people it portends to represent" as long as the management of Cathay take such a belligerent approach to its personnel relations. The next time you fly (or interact with non-management staff) ask a few questions about how they feel about the present state of affairs and Cathay’s management. You may be surprised to learn that the management of this airline is almost universally despised.
A well know-known and often quoted summation of Cathay in Airline (Management) Circles:
Technical Excellence, Personnel Catastrophe
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Oh Cpt you are so cruel, are you casting nasturtians about my stature? In my limited exposure to management I have not found them belligerent at all. The converse is true. This is a magnificent organisation, 56 years of operation and one petty cash loss - no Government financial support either, what a great management and what a wonderful business. The folks looking through rose coloursed glasses are the only threat, are you one of them? There are plenty or most of the airlines in the world envy this great airline. Join the party and have some fun, lets get wealthy together.
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Absolutely Management. Why?
nasturtiums NOT nasturtians (although what the context of this reference to any of a genus (Tropaeolum of the family Tropaeolaceae, the nasturtium family) of herbs of Central and So. America has to do with my comments is beyond me. Perhaps you meant "aspersions"?
organization NOT organisation (with an "S" is a generally accepted American spelling, so a "maybe" here)
coloured NOT coloursed
I also think your comments are so naive as to be unbelieveable. I won't dispute that they (Cathay Upper Management) are wizards at making money, but "magnificent"? No.
Friend, the management of Cathay are despised by the vast majority of the employees, whether you choose to ignore it or not.
nasturtiums NOT nasturtians (although what the context of this reference to any of a genus (Tropaeolum of the family Tropaeolaceae, the nasturtium family) of herbs of Central and So. America has to do with my comments is beyond me. Perhaps you meant "aspersions"?
organization NOT organisation (with an "S" is a generally accepted American spelling, so a "maybe" here)
coloured NOT coloursed
I also think your comments are so naive as to be unbelieveable. I won't dispute that they (Cathay Upper Management) are wizards at making money, but "magnificent"? No.
Friend, the management of Cathay are despised by the vast majority of the employees, whether you choose to ignore it or not.
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Shareholders and pax seem pleased...employees are way down the list, especially flight crew. Only when flights are delayed and the bottom line threatened are they likely to notice. As most industrial action is not allowed in HKG, the AOA members have a choice, go with the flow or look elsewhere.
Are they (as a collective group) able to realise same...not likely.
The laughter you notice is coming from the company executive suite.
Are they (as a collective group) able to realise same...not likely.
The laughter you notice is coming from the company executive suite.