Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Fragrant Harbour
Reload this Page >

Boeing C&T screw up

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Boeing C&T screw up

Old 9th Aug 2018, 01:38
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: uk
Posts: 0
Boeing C&T screw up

The first slide in the current P2/K2 simulator sessions asks " when does your medical expire ?".
How ironic then that one of the scab sim instructors who now does these renewals as part of the FOP 'cheapcheck' policy has been found not to have a valid medical himself thus rendering at least 30 crews recent P2 renewals invalid. These crews are being re-rostered to do their ratings again with properly qualified STC's at huge cost.
Is this being investigated ? No. The sim instructor involved is high up in the "brotherhood" so no questions being asked.
unitedabx is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2018, 11:07
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Asia
Posts: 557
Will these 30 guys get DnG’ed for not checking the checker’s qualification?


Originally Posted by unitedabx View Post
The first slide in the current P2/K2 simulator sessions asks " when does your medical expire ?".
How ironic then that one of the scab sim instructors who now does these renewals as part of the FOP 'cheapcheck' policy has been found not to have a valid medical himself thus rendering at least 30 crews recent P2 renewals invalid. These crews are being re-rostered to do their ratings again with properly qualified STC's at huge cost.
Is this being investigated ? No. The sim instructor involved is high up in the "brotherhood" so no questions being asked.

Last edited by AQIS Boigu; 9th Aug 2018 at 19:16.
AQIS Boigu is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2018, 15:21
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 725
Time To Win
Flex88 is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2018, 16:24
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 6
Iím getting so used to CXís ďwinningĒ that Iím getting sick of ďwinningĒ all the time. Now about those upgrades, years delayed, CX will have to contract, not grow as the propoganda repeats incessantly.
cxorcist is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2018, 17:23
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Everywhere
Posts: 253
Go on tell us who it is....
Glass Half Empty is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2018, 17:50
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 6
I didnít realize sim instructors needed a medical, even those giving PCs. Some of them look like they have one foot in the grave already, not sure how a medical for those guys would be possible.
cxorcist is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2018, 19:14
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 353
You need a licence to issue AR/IRs but your licence is only valid if you have a medical. I thought you also needed to be in recent flying experience (within 6 months) but that may be duff gen, and Iím sure CX will be able to persuade CAD to relax some of these regs in their favour if they need to.
Loopdeloop is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2018, 21:34
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: hong kong
Posts: 112
I was always under the impression that a former STCís could only issue IR/PC for a period of one year following cessation of flying duties . So if that is no longer the case then CAD have changed the rules
cannot is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2018, 23:59
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: HK
Posts: 16
Happened on the bus fleet last year, October time, another very senior (Number 1, don't you know) RF had a lapsed medical and renewed quite a few p6's. Ask the CAD how many of these then went on to illegally operate...
Bekol delay is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2018, 00:24
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 725
SSI's

Originally Posted by cannot View Post
I was always under the impression that a former STC’s could only issue IR/PC for a period of one year following cessation of flying duties . So if that is no longer the case then CAD have changed the rules

Geeze gents/gals, get up to date. They require a medical, like you. If they have and also have STC background they can "Check" till they drop (i.e. forever).. CAD bends over and for CX, "Time to Win"
I wonder, did the AOA "ever" say anything about this? There is even some "Star Chamber" gents in there doing this (just a little salt in the wound ey wot)
This has been kicked around on this site for a year + now.. Your EX-STC pals are taking line trainer jobs... Get it ??
Flex88 is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2018, 06:17
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Not in JFK
Posts: 45
I donít understand what a medical has to do with a sim check?
letsfly75 is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2018, 12:36
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 725
Originally Posted by letsfly75 View Post
I don’t understand what a medical has to do with a sim check?

Yes I know it's very very complicated letsfly but here are the basics. To "check" (i.e.representing the CAD for license issue or renewal purposes), you must have a "valid license" and to have a valid license, you "must" have a valid Class 1 medical.. Too complicated ???
Flex88 is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2018, 14:19
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: All over
Posts: 267
Originally Posted by letsfly75 View Post
I donít understand what a medical has to do with a sim check?
When you think about it, it does make some sense. The checker is acting as an extension of the regulatory authority to make sure a pilot can perform certain maneuvers according to regulatory standards. While he or she isn't charged with the lives of 300 or 400 people in the back, he or she is still charged with re-validating the license which allows the checkee to carry those people.

As a regulatory authority, would you want one of your examiners checking people (and certifying them) who had an untreated psychosis (all jokes aside), had an untreated substance abuse disorder, or even maybe a stroke which had left mental faculties impaired ? In that it might be difficult (but certainly possible--and potentially worthwhile) to come up with a different set of medical standards for certification of designated examiners, the existing ones for pilots are simply used.
Slasher1 is offline  
Old 12th Aug 2018, 02:21
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: HKG
Posts: 333
A few years ago some hero decided to save some $ by not having an Airbus sim re-certified for both 340 and 330, just 330. No one told training control (or they didn't understand) so the sim was still used for 340 PCs. A bunch of guys were flying without valid ratings, had to re-do PCs.

More recently with CAD giving CX a hard time over all the licence screw ups, Manager Training asked a Capt to 'loose' his licence, so a new, valid one could be issued by CAD. Capt wasn't too keen as it would mean making a false declaration to HKG Police.

Now CX is pushing the responsibility back onto us, with reminders to check licences. It would be nice if CX could actually manage something as fundamental to an airline as air crew licencing.
controlledrest is offline  
Old 12th Aug 2018, 03:01
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: HK
Posts: 521
controlledrest

It is YOUR licence make sure it is valid, don't rely on anyone else, YOU will carry the resulting mess. Cathay does not own your licence.
iceman50 is offline  
Old 12th Aug 2018, 03:59
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: CLK
Posts: 372
Iceman, does that mean we, the line pilot, need to check the checkers medical/licence every time?

I know it is the sim in this case, but every time we take a real aircraft the sign on sheet confirms validities/currency, by the checker/SSI turning up for duty, doesnít that imply that they are also making a statement that they are appropriately licensed and valid?

Where does it end......
Farman Biplane is offline  
Old 12th Aug 2018, 04:06
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On the road
Posts: 159
I am surprised one of the local papers hasn't picked this up. Cathay pilots fly passengers without valid license due simulator stuff up. CAD does nothing (again).
mr did is offline  
Old 12th Aug 2018, 04:45
  #18 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: uk
Posts: 0
mr did

excellent point and one I was alluding too in the original post. This is being "buried" by management but the cost on the 777 fleet alone for repeated sim time/STC's/loss of pilot productivity runs into the HKD millions.
unitedabx is offline  
Old 12th Aug 2018, 06:49
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 19
I'll bite.... If they hold valid licences why are they limited to only "flying" the sim? Because they like the hours?

How can a sim-only "Checker" hold a valid licence/medical when he's aged over 65? Just some random names..., Screaming Skull, Kim Jung Phil.....
Liam Gallagher is offline  
Old 12th Aug 2018, 07:36
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: CLK
Posts: 372
Nothing random about the fact that 5 members of the Star Chamber are now checkers in the sim.
Yet another intimidation ploy by the company...?
Farman Biplane is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.