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Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Everyone knows...

Old 8th Jun 2018, 10:22
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bouvet Island
Posts: 110
Everyone knows...

That these talks have only been scheduled to take the industrial pressure off during the all-important summer travel months. They will inevitably "break down" after summer travel and typhoon season have receded into the past. Which begs the question, why talk at all? We know what the outcome will be. They're not even talking $$$! How crazy is that!
plainpilot11 is offline  
Old 8th Jun 2018, 12:34
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: CLK
Posts: 316
No $$$ = no agreement for most.

Apparently we are not in contract compliance for $$$ though?
Farman Biplane is offline  
Old 8th Jun 2018, 12:53
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Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 838
Oh, but we soon will be, and for everything else .
mngmt mole is offline  
Old 8th Jun 2018, 15:16
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Asia
Posts: 125
Why should these talks take away any industrial pressure??? Comply with your contract and don't go into training, simple.

Talks with the company have never produced anything beneficial for the aircrew for over two decades now, talks change nothing. Contract compliance and the training ban will remain until we get a proper contract that addresses all of our concerns INCLUDING remuneration.
Dilbert68 is offline  
Old 8th Jun 2018, 16:39
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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You'll be in CC forever then Dilbert
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Old 8th Jun 2018, 16:43
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Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 838
Then so be it ThreeThirty. I am happy to see the rest of my career out staying compliant with CC and the TB. The company however cannot. If the last day of my career is spent defying the company, then it will have been well spent.
mngmt mole is offline  
Old 8th Jun 2018, 17:16
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: All Over
Posts: 471
You'd think maybe the second or third time Lucy moved the football Charlie would have gotten wise.

Anyway for the inevitable result:



Shep69 is offline  
Old 8th Jun 2018, 21:55
  #8 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: HK MTR
Posts: 140
I personally don't see why everyone is so up tight about CC. CC is simply doing what you are paid to do. As far as I can see Cathay has been in CC all the time. When is the last time Cathay did something outside the contract? Therefore CC should be SOP.

TB is a different story and this is where the company is hurting
Sand Man is offline  
Old 9th Jun 2018, 01:36
  #9 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 609

Originally Posted by Sand Man View Post
I personally don't see why everyone is so up tight about CC. CC is simply doing what you are paid to do. As far as I can see Cathay has been in CC all the time. When is the last time Cathay did something outside the contract? Therefore CC should be SOP.

TB is a different story and this is where the company is hurting
On the nail SM !! If CX wants to move "any" goalpost - they should pay. That's the way they do business so why not the same for us.
The Jellyfish now has the football so it will be his opening play to make his signature mark, my observation is he's NEVER YET stuck his head up on ANY subject, topical or otherwise, and I don't expect him to change now. Those traits are exactly how he got where he is today.
Very sad IMHO, at the exact time when we desperately need an intelligent innovator what we get is a docile compliant conformist.. Swires love this trait in their puppet FOP "leadership".

IMHO, "if" there are any offerings of any type that just "may' nudge some toward a yes vote of any kind, do NOT vote on anything until there is absolute 100% written contractual clarity on the use/implications/benefits of that all important (illusive) software module that "should" allow swap/trades etc.regarding CMP because at this moment in time, your lifestyle quality is ZERO % of the equation.
If you get a pay rise and then have your life "optimised" (i.e. ruined), what's the point.

Last edited by Flex88; 10th Jun 2018 at 08:05.
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Old 9th Jun 2018, 05:57
  #10 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 838
Flex, you are absolutely correct. CX is going to attempt to bamboozle us into signing on to a contract that will effectively destroy the last hopes of a stable, prosperous career. In particular, we CANNOT allow ourselves to sign onto a CMP setup that "optimizes" our productivity to the complete exclusion of lifestyle concerns. As you mention, a "payraise" (and will that include all the cost of living adjustments due for the past few years, BEFORE an actual increase?) will be worthless if they effectively kill your quality of life in the process. Think long and hard about what you are signing, as this will most likely define what type of career you will be settling for in perpetuity. We have been in CC and the TB for over 3 years now, and personally, I can go another 3 if that is what it takes. Don't throw away the best leverage we have seen in over 20 years. If you do, it is game over. Permanently.
mngmt mole is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2018, 00:08
  #11 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2007
Location: CLK
Posts: 316
One could argue that this is the ONLY leverage we have had in the last 20yrs.
I personally would appreciate it if our diverse AOA colleagues DO NOT squander it, please!
Farman Biplane is offline  
Old 10th Jun 2018, 05:05
  #12 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: HKG
Posts: 185
NO deal if any pilot group takes a cut to conditions. Too many times one group's advantage is paid for by another group.

NO deal unless > 70% vote yes. 50+1 isn't good enough.
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Old 11th Jun 2018, 03:57
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: HK
Posts: 3
Cathay Pacific CEO Rupert Hogg says airline willing to extend talks with pilots over cuts ? but won?t confirm if it can wait until 2019 | South China Morning Post

“When we agreed to talk, we agreed that we’ll set ourselves a timetable and if we get to a certain point that we need some more time, we’ll take some more time,” Hogg said in an interview with the Post on the sidelines of a global aviation summit in Sydney last week.
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Old 11th Jun 2018, 05:26
  #14 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 510
“Similarly, while the airline has been firmly losing money since 2016, it recorded a smaller-than-expected loss of HK$1.25 billion loss last year and notched up a profit in the second half of 2017....“on track” to achieve profitability targets by the end of 2019.
The silver lining in the company’s earnings could mean pilots were less likely to accept financial restraint.

They already cut 9% from my salary last year, something they didn’t do with their pilots at Dragon Air, nor the flight attendants at both airlines. This was on top of the multiple cuts I was forced to accept over the past 25 years. No more. I will not be signing any agreement that includes another cut to my salary or benefits.
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Old 11th Jun 2018, 13:26
  #15 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 838
Raven, it's more than 9%. Factor in the below average (non-existent the past two years) inflationary pay adjustments (notice I did not say "raise") and the real number is getting closer to 12-14%. As you said, I will not be signing anything that involves less than me being brought back to even, and at the very least has the same guarantees as KA. It's absurd that we are now paid less than our sister airline. Further, it must never again be allowed that the Captains of the airline get abused and disrespected in the way they were this past CNY. It's for that reason that I am personally "adjusting" my operation to account for that. Already twice the amount accounted for, and still more than half the year to go.

To the more junior pilots, do not let CX "play" your group agains the group with higher benefits. The ONLY way to reach a better deal is for all pilots to be treated equally. If you participate in undermine those above you, it is a certainty that a few years down the track "you" will be the group being undermined by the new "C/D/E" scale etc... Only a contract that provides ALL the pilots in this airline with increases is acceptable. We must fight for one another. We are ALL being abused by this management.
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