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Emirates coming to town..THEY WANT YOU!!

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Emirates coming to town..THEY WANT YOU!!

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Old 12th Jun 2018, 07:01
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Eden Valley
Posts: 1,639
Originally Posted by raven11 View Post
Gnadenburg

It’s not a “claim”...you are paid more. The 13th month bonus is part of your contract, it’s not in ours. Sadly, as we CX pilots discovered last year, what that means is that the Dragon Air pilots and flight attendants, in addition to our flight attendants at CX, never have to worry about receiving it. That might seem inconsequential to you, but I assure you it’s not for us.

Can an you give me an explanation as to why you might perceive that as fair?


Raven

I don't like the way you are treated. Actually, I don't like the way we are treated or are going to be treated. It's not fair ! It's a destructive way to conduct business and drives immeasurable inefficiencies. But it may be the way forward we all have to get used to if they are shrinking CX?

Now I'd really like to see CX pilots' tax certificates. Say 10-15 year Captains so apples and oranges can finally be compared. I've asked many times on PPRuNe and debate goes quiet. Soon after the regular bluster fires up again from CX pilots about KA pilots getting paid much more. The non-payment of your discretionary CNY bonus perhaps, will make a significant difference. But again, a look at annual taxation returns, may be brutally honest. Why don't you PM me yours?

When we were in our CC campaign at KA I can not recall whining about CX pilots getting paid more- and by the admission of RH you were! It is actually a professional slur on many of you. A legacy pilot foolishness and spite, that only ever achieves management objectives of lowering the COS of all. I think industrial-organizational psychology at CX plays this division well . Management are planting rumours about KA that will see CX pilots happy with small or zero gains in areas, as long as they think they are doing it better than KA pilots. Don't believe, read the trash here on PPRuNe.

I'm happy to admit there are a number of jobs I'm envious of. CX and EK are neither of them.

Last edited by Gnadenburg; 12th Jun 2018 at 08:06.
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Old 12th Jun 2018, 08:05
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: hongkers
Posts: 68
Further to my previous post. My intention wasn't to undermine your claim. I think it was an appalling decision to single out CX captains to be the only ones not to get a CNY bonus. You have every right to be royally pissed off. It was a dumb, vindictive decision on CX managements part which has succeeded only in uniting the Cx pilot body even more. Stick to your guns. You deserve better.

Cap8. You're right. China isn't fun some days. However we wouldn't do the type of roster you posted.( not often anyway) For a start a single G day is not allowed under our RPA ( we still have one) unless you have been given one of you 5 joker G day blocks. Also, China being the nightmare it is, the company has been forced to increase turn around times. That has started to limit the number of sectors you can do in a day. The "optimiser" seems to be a bit random. Some guys on 60 hours a month some on 100.
Horses for courses. You like your long haul mixed with a bit of fatigue. I'll stick with actually flying mixed with some China frustration and a dash of tiredness.
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Old 12th Jun 2018, 10:17
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Lo cat ion
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The company relies on KA captains doing regular discretion when on summer China flughts. Its a regular occurrence. So you get the rosters you deserve.

I hear some ka pilots even do over 3 hours discretion
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Old 12th Jun 2018, 12:17
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Originally Posted by captain8 View Post
EK crew are on long haul, but still only manage 9/10 G days a month . Just saying .
EK crew are Long, Medium and Short Haul. A certain psychopathic manager targets 8 days off a month for Tech Crew because he considers them the same as office staff.

Try getting a sleeping pattern with that type of flying.
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Old 12th Jun 2018, 12:19
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: HK
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Originally Posted by captain8 View Post
I hear some ka pilots even do over 3 hours discretion
Complete anomaly, I think you'll find that KA captains willing to go into discretion are few and far between.
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Old 12th Jun 2018, 16:43
  #66 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: hk
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Anyone know if they have overseas education? Thanks
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Old 13th Jun 2018, 08:31
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: In Sin
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Originally Posted by YellowFever777 View Post
Complete anomaly, I think you'll find that KA captains willing to go into discretion are few and far between.
Ok 3 hours was mad n crazy but plenty of the skippers doing 1-2 hours xtra . Especially the A320 guys with their C scale keenness. L.
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Old 13th Jun 2018, 12:43
  #68 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: HK
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Not all heroes wear capes except for the KA captains doing 1-3 hrs discretion, you guys are just pathetic but hey keep complaining about a 0% pay rise in the cockpit!
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Old 13th Jun 2018, 13:31
  #69 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: In Sin
Age: 48
Posts: 43
Its now 2 years of Nothing . Except 4.5% inflation.

Yep and 80 or so guys actually gave up their evening at home to attend the AGM to actually vote for the Zero % pay offer. How can this be ? Mad Mad Mad.

KA is not an angry place. Even a eunuch once had balls, not [email protected] Cathay Dragon

No chance anyone will be brave enoght to go to EK QR . Not a chance . Cockpit moaners only.
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Old 13th Jun 2018, 14:11
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Lalaland
Posts: 7
As long as the green toilet keeps dumping planes to dragon the boys and girls will keep voting for the pay freezes. Gotta secure expansion somehow.
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Old 13th Jun 2018, 14:23
  #71 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Centre of Universe
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Originally Posted by flyingbynight View Post
A quick chat with anybody working at Emirates will soon put you off the idea.
Grass is greener at Cathy come on admit it
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Old 15th Jun 2018, 00:18
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: The Best Place!
Posts: 160
Originally Posted by GillEx737 View Post
Oh is that right? Honestly you lot are absolutely pathetic. THIS is one of the things I hate about EK - miserable old buggers willing to tear down their own colleagues if they don't like what's being said. You are half the reason this bullying culture flourishes, by targeting your own if they don't feel as bitter and twisted as you. You have absolutely no idea who I am - and trust me I'm not a 'Costa Coffee Dweller' - I just know that the grass isn't always greener and although I'm working like a dog it's still worth it for me and my family.

And SOPS - you don't work for EK anymore. Get a life or at least enjoy your own and let go of the bitterness. It's embarrassing.
Well come on then Gill, if you are a genuine pilot how long have you been at EK? I'll take a wild guess if you are in fact a pilot - less than 18 months, and Turboprop or LCC to EK. So the bright shiny jets, and free food at the moment seem fantastic. As do the Cabin Crew.

For the record, I did 7 1/2 years. There is no bullying culture among pilots (only a Costa Coffee dweller would think there is), the bullying is management to pilot. EK was, without doubt, one of the best flight decks I have worked on regarding camaraderie . But perspective? Camaraderie was huge in the WW1. WW2. Korea. VietNam. The Gulf War.

There is a reason for that. In time, you'll work it out.

Last edited by mmmbop; 15th Jun 2018 at 21:47. Reason: Spelling
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Old 15th Jun 2018, 04:52
  #73 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Not where I want to be
Posts: 38
Yep, Comrades in adversity. Them against Us.
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Old 15th Jun 2018, 12:01
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: taiwan
Age: 51
Posts: 23
Exactly.... the grass way greener in CX... but nobody admit it. If not happy leave. The queue is LONG waiting to go in. hehehe.....
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Old 15th Jun 2018, 18:28
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 496
Iceman,
Then by all means throw in your CV...ignore all the warnings as meaningless....they’d love you!
hehehe..
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Old 15th Jun 2018, 18:55
  #76 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 433
Iceman. Sincere question: How old are you? My son is 12 and you both write seemingly at the same level.
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Old 15th Jun 2018, 22:22
  #77 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 185
Originally Posted by fire wall View Post
I'm not sure how this escaped omission but NO TAX, and for Europeans it's 6 hrs travel to home.
Nahhhh. Have been there(ok, crappy Doha with even crappier youknowthatfamous5starmorons with that even better CEO they STILL have over there and BEING an European.

For over 10 years out of this sand hell hole and enjoy paying my tax(because I know for what I am paying after I have seen the Landcruiser faction), enjoy living in europe, enjoy seing my kids grow up in a FREE society with proper education, flying for one of the low costs here in Europe(yeah, I know, no fance first or biz class food or food at all, but you know what, I am living in a free country and more importantly, see wife and kids EVERY bloody day of my life(ok, can be a downturn for some of my fellow skippers, I know, I know ;-) ), sleeping in my own bed EVERY night.

Thought about frigging China for a second or 2, read the (very funny) "magic" book, shared some laughts with my first officers reading it and clearly came to the conclusion. MONEY counts NOTHING if you are not at the place you want to be(and together with a happy family). I have been for sooooo many nightstops in HK, know bloody Doha much better then anyone would like to know, same goes for Dubai which is a tad better(but not really that much to be honest). Still I cannot understand WHAT the attraction of this places are to so many pilots to give up a civilized life(especially if you come from (Western)Europe or Australia/NZ. I understand that money is a big attaction for guys from Africa or Southeast Asia, but really, all the rest.... No idea. I guess marketing isreally a bitch and to many fall for it.

Steer clear. Build a proper career in a free country(nope, ME does NOT count to that, sorry to destroy that dream), be happy with a bit less money on a slightly smaller airframe(WHO really cares HOW long that thing is AFTER the cockpitdoor, at the end it does not matter if it is a 737(apart from the prehistoric cockpit I am "enjoying" ;-) ), 747, 767, 777 or a flying almost alone 787(if you are a airbus jockey but the other figures in). To be fair I have been a Widebody skipper so I know what I am talking about. I understand the "attraction" of widebody aircraft have to some of us and I have met actually really a bunch of people that REALLY enjoyed sitting in that stupid thing for 17 hours in a row. Even their agurmentation sounded fishy to me(why they like it), but at the end it is their choice. I guess if it is just money you are after long haul makes more sense, less sectors for much more money. I want to belief I am not the only one that still likes flying(even after sooo many years) that actually I enjoy a nice approach and landing and the interactions during a turnaround on a 4 sector day. For me THAT is flying. The other thing is riding a bus to it's end, managing some ETOPS checks, maybe the occasional drift down calcualtion, that's it(let's be honest).

As an European being around in the Biz a while I only enjoyed 2 places very much - Australia(was once with long dead Ansett) and of course more or less all "gigs" back home. Protected by proper laws, there is always an agency you can turn to if the employer tries to trow some good old BS at you and at the end they will have to take all back with that bitter old sorry smile, hehe. Never happened during my time in the ME. Was always me with that bitter smile....

Think well.

Last edited by tomuchwork; 15th Jun 2018 at 22:40.
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Old 16th Jun 2018, 07:54
  #78 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: up here, everyone looks like ants!
Posts: 943
Amen brother, amen.
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Old 16th Jun 2018, 13:47
  #79 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 6
Truth.....
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Old 16th Jun 2018, 15:18
  #80 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 433
If you intend on remaining single and childless for the rest of your life, and are perhaps a bit nomadic, then an expat job might tick a few boxes. If you want a normal, settled and relatively stable life, with the best chance for your family to grow roots (both geographically and morally), then the best (and frankly, only) option is to build a career with a decent airline back home. As the OP suggests, MONEY is the worst reason to choose a job/career. Chasing that through CX will lead mainly to frustration, misery and regret.
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