Discrimination
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 0
Likes: 1
From: Polar Route
I’m surprised that the company hasn’t added a cry room to flight dispatch , so that those who feel the need to have a little cry when the situation becomes just too much to bear can do so in private . If the american universities have decided that it’s necessary for their students CX should consider it at the very least , after all our snowflakes are so precious
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: HKG 'visitor'
No.
If you know anything of IF's early career, and have discussed with him the various foreign assignments he engaged in, you would have more clarity.
I have known IF for more than 40 years. He has always been a gentleman, raconteur and socially adept. He is scathing of laziness and unprofessional conduct, but will support and mentor anyone making a sincere effort: Both cases without regard for Race, Colour or Creed.
He does like a few drinks, go ahead and castigate him for that if you feel the need...
If you know anything of IF's early career, and have discussed with him the various foreign assignments he engaged in, you would have more clarity.
I have known IF for more than 40 years. He has always been a gentleman, raconteur and socially adept. He is scathing of laziness and unprofessional conduct, but will support and mentor anyone making a sincere effort: Both cases without regard for Race, Colour or Creed.
He does like a few drinks, go ahead and castigate him for that if you feel the need...
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 552
Likes: 22
From: Hong Kong
A pilot’s pilot... An aviator with a proven track record of instructional success spanning decades.
An outstanding “flying” instructor who was a credit to the Cathay training machine.
Is further proof required? The Air Force A1 category instructional rating is extremely difficult to achieve and therefore rarely awarded. Mull that over...
An outstanding “flying” instructor who was a credit to the Cathay training machine.
Is further proof required? The Air Force A1 category instructional rating is extremely difficult to achieve and therefore rarely awarded. Mull that over...
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
He may very well be a great trainer and a gentleman within a professional setting, but that doesn’t excuse some of the comments that he has said to others. And it hasn’t just been once or twice, there’s been a few times where the color of someone’s skin has been used as an example of CX being ‘desperate’ and ‘scraping the barrel’...etc
And yes, I’m sure all sorts of terms were used back in the old days which some of you have alluded to, but things have changed and people are less likely to put up with casual racism nowadays. Just because it was acceptable back then doesn’t mean it was right, otherwise we’d still have ‘Black face’, ‘Gollywogs’ and god knows what else.
Defend him all you want, he probably is a good bloke down at the bar and a great laugh, but it still doesn’t excuse the things he has said. However, it seems that being one of the ‘Boys’ gets you a free pass and anyone he offends just gets told to drop it!?
And yes, I’m sure all sorts of terms were used back in the old days which some of you have alluded to, but things have changed and people are less likely to put up with casual racism nowadays. Just because it was acceptable back then doesn’t mean it was right, otherwise we’d still have ‘Black face’, ‘Gollywogs’ and god knows what else.
Defend him all you want, he probably is a good bloke down at the bar and a great laugh, but it still doesn’t excuse the things he has said. However, it seems that being one of the ‘Boys’ gets you a free pass and anyone he offends just gets told to drop it!?
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 382
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
The world has gone crazy , whilst I don’t agree with using derogatory names when referring to people of another race there are times when words are said in jest that may offend . Aren’t we big enough just to accept the barb and move on .
in the USA it seems to be acceptable for rap artists or blacks to refer to whites as crackers . But turn it around and let a white person use the “N” word when referring to an African American . They would be charged with a hate crime .
The Chinese have lots of derogatory words for white people , but for the most part the Caucasians simply let it go because we just don’t get that upset about it
in the USA it seems to be acceptable for rap artists or blacks to refer to whites as crackers . But turn it around and let a white person use the “N” word when referring to an African American . They would be charged with a hate crime .
The Chinese have lots of derogatory words for white people , but for the most part the Caucasians simply let it go because we just don’t get that upset about it
Joined: Jun 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 2,238
Likes: 218
From: Eden Valley
This is a personal concern and my views in response to alarming comments above- not anonymous slurs against an individual .
A pre-requisite for a training position in normal parts of the world is empathy. If you think racial slurs is acceptable by someone in a supervisory or training position is OK, where they are in a position to make an break and career, try a little empathy. What about your kids?
Hong Kong is not normal. It's retarded. I know of blatant racists who think they are great trainers, belittling cadets with 150 hours, when they themselves have struggled and shown massive levels of insecurity in the upgrade programme. There's even reports of the gentle, friendly wrap on the knuckles of a cadets over here at KA. Wow, that's going to look great for expat pilots if it ends up in Apple Daily. So on one hand, the bullying is probably insecurity and you can see that a mile off with some of these guys, what about the others? The odd sociopath trainer desperate for management and for the Cold War relics, many elite military flying courses have moved well beyond inherent attitudes of some.
Hats off to the many professionals in training.
A pre-requisite for a training position in normal parts of the world is empathy. If you think racial slurs is acceptable by someone in a supervisory or training position is OK, where they are in a position to make an break and career, try a little empathy. What about your kids?
Hong Kong is not normal. It's retarded. I know of blatant racists who think they are great trainers, belittling cadets with 150 hours, when they themselves have struggled and shown massive levels of insecurity in the upgrade programme. There's even reports of the gentle, friendly wrap on the knuckles of a cadets over here at KA. Wow, that's going to look great for expat pilots if it ends up in Apple Daily. So on one hand, the bullying is probably insecurity and you can see that a mile off with some of these guys, what about the others? The odd sociopath trainer desperate for management and for the Cold War relics, many elite military flying courses have moved well beyond inherent attitudes of some.
Hats off to the many professionals in training.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: UK
Of course times change, we move on & wise up, a bit, Mate of mine failed to get into CX in 1978 because, being born in India, the Selection Board thought he was Indian. He does tan up beautifully though and after too much HK sun did look rather bl........oeps, nearly said it, I mean..........African American. Just read that Guy Gibson was born in Simla and lived his first five years in India. Guess he would not have made it past the Cx Selection Board either. Mind you, he did look wh.........oeps, nearly said it, I mean..........caucasian. Of course, if you had blond hair, blue eyes and white skin, you were well on your way past Part 1 of the Selection procedure. Additionally, if you were ex Mil, liked boats & you were a Freemason, you were IN !
40 years later, CX appears a bit more relaxed & colourful. Now, back to my current read ; Snow caucasion & her 7 height disadvantaged followers. Book signed by author using African American ink. Drat, maybe we have moved on a bit too far.
40 years later, CX appears a bit more relaxed & colourful. Now, back to my current read ; Snow caucasion & her 7 height disadvantaged followers. Book signed by author using African American ink. Drat, maybe we have moved on a bit too far.
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,060
Likes: 62
From: HKG
Identity politics. Why not just have three boxes and you tick one. Have a penis, don't have a penis, used to have a penis?
Racism is often misunderstood and people jump all over non racist comments. To be a racist means you dislike someone because of their race. I do not like the way the majority of mainlanders behave, I dislike it. That does not make me a racist as I would not judge an individual by their race. I do not like the cultural aspects of the majority, I do not have to, it is my right do dislike that. Often comments about cultural behaviour are mistaken as racist.
Racism is often misunderstood and people jump all over non racist comments. To be a racist means you dislike someone because of their race. I do not like the way the majority of mainlanders behave, I dislike it. That does not make me a racist as I would not judge an individual by their race. I do not like the cultural aspects of the majority, I do not have to, it is my right do dislike that. Often comments about cultural behaviour are mistaken as racist.
Joined: Dec 1998
Posts: 223
Likes: 66
Well said Sloppy. However, it is a sad reflection on the state of this airline (and many of it's employees) that this is seemingly the "topic of the week", considering all the other major issues that really DO affect our lives. There are too many snowflakes in this industry today. Fact.
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: HKG 'visitor'
[QUOTE=Landflap;10141962] Just read that Guy Gibson was born in Simla and lived his first five years in India. Guess he would not have made it past the Cx Selection Board either. Mind you, he did look wh.........oeps, nearly said it, I mean..........caucasian.
Guy Gibson? Don't mention his dog!
Guy Gibson? Don't mention his dog!
Joined: Jun 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 2,238
Likes: 218
From: Eden Valley
As many Cathay pilots move off to the contract world at near one a day, perhaps the issue will be better understood in time as some will be on the receiving end of "cultural" checking and training.
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 748
Likes: 0
From: HK-CRoC
Discrimination
Yeh, yeh, yeh, here we go down the PC line, if you read the latest Weekly News Letter you can see it coming down the train tracks and coming fast..
Just wait, not long from now you can expect to be enrolled in another mandatory course in Learners World, again with no hrs credit; "Sensitivity Training", it's on the way. This will follow the perfunctory mounting of a list of trigger words in dispatch - and it's going to be very very long to cater for all the now 50+ genders and XX nationalities that work here . Fairly soon a "Gday Mate" will get you fired. No more yes Sir it'l be yes "Zir" so as not to offend.
Sad and disgusting all, snowflakes should get an extra ½ stripe so know and can then reduce our vocabulary down to about 50 words so as not to offend anyone of anything.
Only one fix for for this absurdity, "CXit"
Just wait, not long from now you can expect to be enrolled in another mandatory course in Learners World, again with no hrs credit; "Sensitivity Training", it's on the way. This will follow the perfunctory mounting of a list of trigger words in dispatch - and it's going to be very very long to cater for all the now 50+ genders and XX nationalities that work here . Fairly soon a "Gday Mate" will get you fired. No more yes Sir it'l be yes "Zir" so as not to offend.
Sad and disgusting all, snowflakes should get an extra ½ stripe so know and can then reduce our vocabulary down to about 50 words so as not to offend anyone of anything.
Only one fix for for this absurdity, "CXit"
Last edited by Flex88; 11th May 2018 at 13:07.
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 413
Likes: 47
From: FL, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU0RfhvYN8s
"If you can't treat someone with dignity and respect, you have to get out"
"If you can't treat someone with dignity and respect, you have to get out"
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
From: St Helena Island
Great video, until you consider that he berated the entire cadet group about racist graffiti that turned out to be a hoax, written by minority cadets.
Post #24 and #25 echo my sentiments.