How to Negotiate

[corrigin]

Originally Posted by Australopithecus

If you are referring to operating long flights with one captain, one F/O and two S/Os, that has always been the way its done at QF. I apologise if I misunderstand the issue.

*Warning - Slight Thread Drift*

That may very well be at QF. However, the S/Os at QF come with experience. We fly with some inexperienced S/Os that are unable to transmit a standard position report on the HF radio. Recently I had one S/O that was unable to load the FMC according to our flight plan. His attention was focused on drawing boxes around FIR boundaries, triangles over MRAs above FL100 and circles at every planned level change. Of course, the majority come prepared and have the experience to back them.

Some will vote selfishly - but in the past, and I hope in the future, the majority will vote with the entire membership in mind.

Sadly, some WILL vote selfishly not realising that they are only hurting themselves and their colleagues for their future.

[Hugo Peroni the IV]

Sadly, he will have been taught to draw those pretty pictures whilst going through training! Should we be blaming the product or the process?

[Australopithecus]

Originally Posted by Samsonite

The difference is, that we have 2 S/O's with a total of about 300 hours combined and wouldn't even be able to hold a MPL or Commercial License let alone an ATPL in most countries.

Sorry...I forgot your're hiring zero time guys. Of course our new hires are all experienced, and many already have long haul airline exposure and training courtesy of CX. Those guys are a resource that I hope you don’t end up sorely missing down the road.

[Che Xindamail]

Originally Posted by ADFUS

Also, aren't a large part of QF Captains ex cadets? They seemed to have managed alright.

Through the years I’ve had the pleasure of flying with, and training, many ex-QF pilots. Every single one was an exceptionally good pilot as well as a kindhearted individual. Credit to QF’s selection procedure and training of their cadets. We all start from scratch, even though with age we forget what it was like.

[Airbubba]

Originally Posted by BlunderBus

Incidentally the USA contracts expressly include a phrase that states flying with 2 s/o’s is at the captains discretion and although he may be asked .. his decision is final.
hkaoa need to follow suit

That's news to me. Can you provide a reference? I'm not aware that any major U.S. airlines have second officers these days.

Sounds like an Ozmate urban legend.

[EESDL]

Lowering entry standards

Not sure why you think CAD should care? They’re not interested as recruits have line training and rigorous sim/base/line checks to get through before pilot allowed to touch a radio......and CX told CAD how it was to be done a long time ago ;-)

[RAT Management]

Where is Trafalgar?

[A3301FD]

Suspect Trafalgar is a victim of the media policy unlike our celebrity who saves the day when Cathay Captains get stressed, could be wrong.

[backtothegrindstone]

Originally Posted by A3301FD

Suspect Trafalgar is a victim of the media policy unlike our celebrity who saves the day when Cathay Captains get stressed, could be wrong.

what do you mean ?

[Trafalgar]

Still here. On "sick leave". Needed a break from the madness. I'll be commenting when something happens. In the meantime, it's wonderful to have been able to forget about CX for a few weeks.

[Captain Dart]

Cheers Traf. I will soon be forgetting about the ‘new’ CX permanently. I will never forget the old one.

[mngmt mole]

Cheers Traf. Don't hurry back. I'm off enjoying some "recuperation time" as well. Lovely time of year here in southern Europe (ps, would some of the my fellow Captains PLEASE check your js requests...looking to get back from LHR soon ).

[Liam Gallagher]

Mngmt mole,

Good luck with the JS requests out of LHR...

Blunderbus,

Checked with a USAOA buddy and he said their contract has no restrictions on 2x SO. He thinks you might be getting confused with ad-hoc 3 man to recover an aircraft. He also pointed out that AFTLS prevents 2x SO on sectors > 15 hours so westbound to HK would be a challenge.

[Airbubba]

Originally Posted by Liam Gallagher

Checked with a USAOA buddy and he said their contract has no restrictions on 2x SO. He thinks you might be getting confused with ad-hoc 3 man to recover an aircraft. He also pointed out that AFTLS prevents 2x SO on sectors > 15 hours so westbound to HK would be a challenge.

Your 'USAOA buddy' says he flies with SO's? What a load of nonsense. The only SO's at U.S. carriers were flight engineers and they are long gone even at cargo outfits like FedEx and UPS.

[main_dog]

Airbubba, I think they’re talking about US-based CX pilots, they have US contracts. Thus, they fly with SOs.

[Airbubba]

Originally Posted by main_dog

Airbubba, I think they’re talking about US-based CX pilots, they have US contracts. Thus, they fly with SOs.

Doh.

Thanks, my apologies.