The Latest Act of Desperation
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There is no shortage of qualified pilots lining up at the US majors and there never will be. You can always dream that Delta or AA will come begging for you to join with a green card with a bow on it but it will NEVER happen.
The major US carriers are hiring a lot of pilots now and for the forseeable future. This may result in a shortage of pilots at the smaller feeder carriers. It is possible that there will not be enough pilots for these airlines and they MAY need to look outside the US, time will tell.
To get a job at one of the coveted majors is still highly sought after and competitive. There are plenty of pilots in the US to fill these vacancies.
The major US carriers are hiring a lot of pilots now and for the forseeable future. This may result in a shortage of pilots at the smaller feeder carriers. It is possible that there will not be enough pilots for these airlines and they MAY need to look outside the US, time will tell.
To get a job at one of the coveted majors is still highly sought after and competitive. There are plenty of pilots in the US to fill these vacancies.
So let me get this right: US airlines are moaning to their .gov there are not enough qualified pilots in the pipeline, and could they please get some from abroad?
In that case, were I the .gov, the following question would be asked in response: What have you done to address this problem. Please point me towards the ab-initio programs you're running. Oh, that's right, you can't. Well, in that case do see yourself out and solve your own self-inflicted problem, ya' daft pr1ck.
In that case, were I the .gov, the following question would be asked in response: What have you done to address this problem. Please point me towards the ab-initio programs you're running. Oh, that's right, you can't. Well, in that case do see yourself out and solve your own self-inflicted problem, ya' daft pr1ck.
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E3 Aussie pilots
Yeah... sorry calling B.S. out on that too. No Legacy carrier, Southwest, UPS, or FedEx will ever be sponsoring foreign pilots. EVER. There will NEVER be a shortage of pilots at these carriers. But keep thinking otherwise, Air Profit!
There are a few regionals taking E3 visas from a few Aussies who are willing to whore themselves out at the expense of all other pilots, but that's as far as these foreign pilots will only go in the USA - the subpar regional level.
Like another poster said above, the above airlines all have 10,000+ applications on file, and that will never change. There will never be a shortage at that level.
Keep believing in your self importance however and how much the US really needs you... it is entertaining to read how completely out of touch you are in your CX bubble.
There are a few regionals taking E3 visas from a few Aussies who are willing to whore themselves out at the expense of all other pilots, but that's as far as these foreign pilots will only go in the USA - the subpar regional level.
Like another poster said above, the above airlines all have 10,000+ applications on file, and that will never change. There will never be a shortage at that level.
Keep believing in your self importance however and how much the US really needs you... it is entertaining to read how completely out of touch you are in your CX bubble.
Secondly they are hired because the simple fact is there are more jobs available than there are pilots to fill them which is why they are hiring them because it is not for 'CHEAP Labour' again pay rates prove this.
Thirdly and most importantly you have this arrogance that the world should be blessed with American pilots in China, ME, Asia ec but those guys are not 'whoring' just filling open available slots yet anybody in the US is doing it at the expense of other pilots.
That is not a very friendly attitude to have towards fellow pilots just trying to make a living. As somebody who has a fair few American friends Im thankful they dont have that attitude and genuinly great people.
Maybe you want to check that attitude at the door and be grateful they have contributed to your economy and society as a whole. Hopefully you will come around and recognise them for the positive contribution they are providing.
I am not a CX pilot by the way either.
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Dilbert. You sound like an ALPA rep, chapter and verse. As some above have said, you only have to look at the different parts of the equation to realise that there will be a point where the US airlines will not be able to source their pilots domestically. None of us (you either) know what will happen, but my money is on a change of visa category for qualified foreign pilots. It HAS happened in the past btw, so how can you be so sure it won't again? Time will tell.
1989
Luggage
Let's not forget all of the American Pilots who found themselves with Ansett and Australian Airlines during and after 1989.
There's a world of difference between acting as a strike breaker as opposed to filling a Seat that otherwise wouldn't anyone to fill it.
Let's not forget all of the American Pilots who found themselves with Ansett and Australian Airlines during and after 1989.
There's a world of difference between acting as a strike breaker as opposed to filling a Seat that otherwise wouldn't anyone to fill it.
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Yeah all 10 of them, out of the 100,000 airline pilots back in the States.
How is it Australians are coming to the crap paying regionals in the States when there is this huge pilot shortage in Aus? To the point where you’re now recruiting foreigners?
Oh yeah there’s not a shortage, just a way for Aussie companies not to pay what the market demands.
Now think about how American pilots think about Aussies coming to the crap regionals only and doing that.
Pot meet Kettle.
How is it Australians are coming to the crap paying regionals in the States when there is this huge pilot shortage in Aus? To the point where you’re now recruiting foreigners?
Oh yeah there’s not a shortage, just a way for Aussie companies not to pay what the market demands.
Now think about how American pilots think about Aussies coming to the crap regionals only and doing that.
Pot meet Kettle.
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Dilbert. You sound like an ALPA rep, chapter and verse. As some above have said, you only have to look at the different parts of the equation to realise that there will be a point where the US airlines will not be able to source their pilots domestically. None of us (you either) know what will happen, but my money is on a change of visa category for qualified foreign pilots. It HAS happened in the past btw, so how can you be so sure it won't again? Time will tell.
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Sweeptheleg, you know nothing of fact. Zero. I however have had a detailed conversation with a 35+ year friend, currently the head of training for one of the US majors. He has related FACT to me about the discussions and proposals that are being tendered. So, keep up the "anti-foreigner" bias that ALPA is famous for. A few thousand foreigners won't even blip the needle of what is needed over the next 15-20 yrs. Relax, they won't spil 'murica'....
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Those AFAP folks never went on strike. The union talked those geniuses into faxing in their resignations en masse. And the companies accepted them.
A sad situation but there was no strike.
I've been on strike and I know the difference.
I still see some of those AFAP folks scattered in Japanese crew lounges nearly three decades later.
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Regardless of personal feeling, there is obviously a massive shortage of pilots developing world-wide. The US will be particularly hard hit, as they have the greatest amount of retirements as a percentage of their operation. As AP has said, the discussion is already underway in Washington. What comes of it, no one knows (take note STL). Time will reveal all. The main point should really be, CX management has great reason to fear attracting and keeping experienced and competent pilots (the two things AT seems to think really aren't needed). So stop the transnational bickering and appreciate that the main benefit to ALL of us is the fact that CX management is making a fatal mistake in how they are treating their pilots. 
(btw, two more FO's I flew with this week are leaving)
(btw, two more FO's I flew with this week are leaving)
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As am American, just want to remind any foreigners that when the downturn in aviation eventually happens - you will be the first to be let go if you work for an American co. Sad to hear what is going on at CX and the fractured relationship between management and pilots and frontline. Cathay is still an institution to many of us around the world yet I feel like it's 1991 and I'm reading about Eastern Airlines' demise in the NYT. I know that the oil hedges caused bloody financial statements, it seems the die is cast in union/mgmt relations, but I hope a miracle happens and CX returns to glory.
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I still see some of those AFAP folks scattered in Japanese crew lounges nearly three decades later .
Did you happen go up to them and tell them what you think about that particular episode in aviation history ?
Did you happen go up to them and tell them what you think about that particular episode in aviation history ?
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Future of the Pilot Profession
It’s rather sad to see these CX pilots desperately want to join a foreign carrier’s union that doesn’t even want them. Keep up the hope!
Meanwhile, as stated above, certain segments of the airline industry claim there is a pilot shortage, and they often blame the shortage on a law passed by Congress in 2010 (P.L. 111-219). As a result of the law, the FAA implemented key safety enhancements to minimum first officer qualifications. The changes were implemented due to safety deficiencies identified in the aftermath of several fatal airline accidents. ALPA’s perspectives on the importance of these safety enhancements are discussed in greater detail in Maintaining Safety Standards.
The facts are clear—there is no pilot shortage in the United States. The annual number of airline transport pilot certificates issued remains strong. In fact, more than 25,500 certificates have been issued since July 2013. This rate of issuance continues to exceed the most optimistic pilot forecast.
Many airlines have recognized that hiring qualified pilots becomes easier when they increase pay and benefits and create career-advancement opportunities. Regional airlines that have added flow-through programs to mainline carriers have seen their hiring improve significantly. Many of these programs provide a path for employment through their code-share partners.
While the airlines that have increased pay, benefits, and quality of life have had no difficulty hiring qualified pilots, many regional airlines still have first-year salaries below $30,000. Basic economics should drive up these salaries if these airlines want to remain competitive in the U.S. market.
An airline pilot shortage is not responsible for small community air service challenges. Air service to small communities is impacted by economics, not pilot supply. In fact, access to and from many small communities has increased since 2012. Newer and larger aircraft have also increased the number of seats available in many small communities.
The facts are clear—there is no pilot shortage in the United States. The annual number of airline transport pilot certificates issued remains strong. In fact, more than 25,500 certificates have been issued since July 2013. This rate of issuance continues to exceed the most optimistic pilot forecast.
Many airlines have recognized that hiring qualified pilots becomes easier when they increase pay and benefits and create career-advancement opportunities. Regional airlines that have added flow-through programs to mainline carriers have seen their hiring improve significantly. Many of these programs provide a path for employment through their code-share partners.
While the airlines that have increased pay, benefits, and quality of life have had no difficulty hiring qualified pilots, many regional airlines still have first-year salaries below $30,000. Basic economics should drive up these salaries if these airlines want to remain competitive in the U.S. market.
An airline pilot shortage is not responsible for small community air service challenges. Air service to small communities is impacted by economics, not pilot supply. In fact, access to and from many small communities has increased since 2012. Newer and larger aircraft have also increased the number of seats available in many small communities.
Please refresh my memory on this event in US airline history. They've always hired green card holders...and are doing that to this very day. As a new F/E in the early 70s at a US legacy, I flew with a Norwegian. We also had other nationalities on the list. Nothing new about that.
As for current talks between US government and airlines, I'm only aware of what has transpired in relation to the USAF's pilot shortfall. They've talked with the airlines in some government setting but the airlines themselves have said VERY little as far as I know. The talks appear to have largely centered on the USAF's problems...not the airlines.
I've posted many articles in this thread. The airlines themselves have been largely silent on the subject:
FAA may reduce required flight time for commercial co-pilots.
I'll bet there is LOTS of talk going on behind the curtain these days but at this point, we're all just the Blind Men and the Elephant.
Last edited by bafanguy; 4th Feb 2018 at 12:18.
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There is not yet a pilot shortage at the top US carriers. Alaska Airlines opened there application window for a month and received 2,800 qualified application for around 100 positions. There is a shortage at the lower end flying jobs.
Last edited by ToLowFlaps; 5th Feb 2018 at 01:18.