The Latest Act of Desperation
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Ok. I personally agree with you on this. I still am not sure why you attacked AP, as he was stating what he was told by a fairly highly placed source. I don't think he personally said it would happen (I will reread more carefully his comments to be sure, but haven't done so at this point). I am also not sure where AP has ever 'lobbied' CX for a visa.
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You guys do realize American carriers are already hiring foreign pilots. In fact there are Australian Cathay pilots who have recently been hired by Sky West. Some SOs are jumping ship for better opportunities in America. Sky West is capable of hiring foreign pilots under the US immigration E visa.
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Don't forget, they are already doing this on behalf of the commuter airlines that can't find enough pilots now (some have already shut down due to no pilots). To argue that somehow this will never happen is absurd, as none of us can predict how this situation will evolve (and I am only relaying info, not stating the outcome). As I said, the above info is from the head of training for one of the US majors. He is obviously more in the loop than any of us.
I have seen the H1B system abuse first hand. Years ago I worked in the cellular industry that is full of green card holding programmers and analysts from India, Pakistan, etc. who work for 1/2 or 2/3 (but have rarely or never been in an actual equipment shelter) and would probably need help to hook up their own home stereo system. This trend has only accelerated since I left. The point of the green card system is NOT there so that companies can tap into the worldwide labor market anytime there is upward pressure on wages.
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This. It is hard to see ALPA rolling over on this one. Heck - look how tough they have been on scope clauses, and that is vs fellow US pilots.
Also the demise of commuter airlines is as much about the re-ordering of US domestic aviation as anything else. It just often makes much more sense to drive 90 miles to a large airport with multiple flights per day on A320/B737 than to take a once daily commuter flight from a local airport. 19 seaters are pretty much obsolete, and this "uneconomicness" is creeping up the scale - almost no-one is buying aircraft with less than 76 seats (the scope clause) these days. Paying crew less or importing them won't change the numbers, that the cachement area of airports has been steadily rising.
Also the demise of commuter airlines is as much about the re-ordering of US domestic aviation as anything else. It just often makes much more sense to drive 90 miles to a large airport with multiple flights per day on A320/B737 than to take a once daily commuter flight from a local airport. 19 seaters are pretty much obsolete, and this "uneconomicness" is creeping up the scale - almost no-one is buying aircraft with less than 76 seats (the scope clause) these days. Paying crew less or importing them won't change the numbers, that the cachement area of airports has been steadily rising.
You guys do realize American carriers are already hiring foreign pilots. In fact there are Australian Cathay pilots who have recently been hired by Sky West. Some SOs are jumping ship for better opportunities in America. Sky West is capable of hiring foreign pilots under the US immigration E visa.
The influx of Aussies to US regional carriers is well documented although I admit to being surprised people would leave CX to fly for a regional here.
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I think the fact of the matter is that one might have a better life working for a regional carrier in the US rather than CX. At least after a short time period of slugging it out, and the pilot shortage has the knock on effect of higher turnover at regionals (with much more rapid advancement through seniority) as well as necessarily higher wages.
Cost is a relative thing. Costs of living in the US can be quite low depending on where you live and rather than blowing all your money trying to make ends meet with hugely expensive housing in a tiny place in HK, you can actually get a pretty decent amount of acreage pretty cheap. Even between locations in the US costs can vary wildly (one can get a decent place for maybe one-fifth to one-tenth of the cost outside of the areas where CX bases in the US even which are some of the more expensive cities to live in; hence the large fraction of commuters).
Now, it’s very unlikely a regional will take as good care of you on the road and you will be quite a bit busier (rather than watching air go by or droning for long periods of time). Then again, some people like busy. The equipment may not be as shiny and well maintained, but again some folks don’t mind this either. Living in a decent place under decent conditions really has a great deal going for it. And for those already far along in their careers but not ready to hang it up quite yet (but not wanting to live in HKG with little say in their destiny) a regional might make sense for some extra cash while doing something you like. With the added advantage of accumulating Social Security credits if needed. As well (with some) of better reciprocal agreements and staff travel, KCM, CASS, etc.
Much depends on the exact details but the fact people are considering stuff like this speaks volumes as to where we’ve come in a few short years.
Cost is a relative thing. Costs of living in the US can be quite low depending on where you live and rather than blowing all your money trying to make ends meet with hugely expensive housing in a tiny place in HK, you can actually get a pretty decent amount of acreage pretty cheap. Even between locations in the US costs can vary wildly (one can get a decent place for maybe one-fifth to one-tenth of the cost outside of the areas where CX bases in the US even which are some of the more expensive cities to live in; hence the large fraction of commuters).
Now, it’s very unlikely a regional will take as good care of you on the road and you will be quite a bit busier (rather than watching air go by or droning for long periods of time). Then again, some people like busy. The equipment may not be as shiny and well maintained, but again some folks don’t mind this either. Living in a decent place under decent conditions really has a great deal going for it. And for those already far along in their careers but not ready to hang it up quite yet (but not wanting to live in HKG with little say in their destiny) a regional might make sense for some extra cash while doing something you like. With the added advantage of accumulating Social Security credits if needed. As well (with some) of better reciprocal agreements and staff travel, KCM, CASS, etc.
Much depends on the exact details but the fact people are considering stuff like this speaks volumes as to where we’ve come in a few short years.
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True, but couple of points. You’ll pay US taxes and SS on all worldwide income, not just your pay. And while you pay the taxes, E3/ H1B visa holders don’t accrue social security credits unless/ until you get a green card. So not a great deal for semi-retirees.
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I guess this how things are done by the cabin crew who are not happy with there working conditions and no one listens..
Video borrowed from emirates cabin crew..
Video borrowed from emirates cabin crew..
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There is no pilot shortage in the US. Just a shortage of pilots willing to work for what management wants them to. That is why there is so much hype right now. Whoever said that working for a regional is better than Cathay should just go try it for a little while. Are we underpaid for flying big jets, YES! Do we need a pay rise, especially considering HK is so expensive - an emphatic YES!
Are the articles talking about a pilot shortage trying to increase supply, so that the supply curve shifts to the right and wages go down - Bingo! It's not rocket science people. The fact that Cathay has effectively trained warm bodies to be pilots will eventually come back to bite the airline, but for now they have shifted the supply curve out..... and they win on the wage front.
What are we going to do about it? Do regulatory agencies around the world know how little experience our SO's have? Would they allow two SO's to occupy the flight deck on an airplane that holds mainly it's citizens?
Are the articles talking about a pilot shortage trying to increase supply, so that the supply curve shifts to the right and wages go down - Bingo! It's not rocket science people. The fact that Cathay has effectively trained warm bodies to be pilots will eventually come back to bite the airline, but for now they have shifted the supply curve out..... and they win on the wage front.
What are we going to do about it? Do regulatory agencies around the world know how little experience our SO's have? Would they allow two SO's to occupy the flight deck on an airplane that holds mainly it's citizens?
Sam,
Would you have a link to the statement ALPA made on this subject of US legacies hiring foreign pilots ?
I looked on the ALPA website and found only this but it doesn't address current events. You said, "Right from ALPA...", so I assume there's a recent statement from them on this subject ?:
ALPA Administrative Manual Section 130-Directives 10/31/16
PART 40 -COLLECTIVE BARGAINING, ORGANIZING
A.FOREIGN PILOTS WITH H-1B VISAS SOURCE - Executive Board October 1993
The President shall utilize the resources of the Association to fully investigate the practices of those U.S. companies hiring foreign pilots with U.S. Visas and any other practices which result in foreign nationals performing flying which could be performed by U.S. pilots.
Should such investigations reveal that U.S. companies are not in full compliance with the statutes pertaining to the hiring of foreign pilots, a formal complaint shall be filed with the Department of Labor.
Would you have a link to the statement ALPA made on this subject of US legacies hiring foreign pilots ?
I looked on the ALPA website and found only this but it doesn't address current events. You said, "Right from ALPA...", so I assume there's a recent statement from them on this subject ?:
ALPA Administrative Manual Section 130-Directives 10/31/16
PART 40 -COLLECTIVE BARGAINING, ORGANIZING
A.FOREIGN PILOTS WITH H-1B VISAS SOURCE - Executive Board October 1993
The President shall utilize the resources of the Association to fully investigate the practices of those U.S. companies hiring foreign pilots with U.S. Visas and any other practices which result in foreign nationals performing flying which could be performed by U.S. pilots.
Should such investigations reveal that U.S. companies are not in full compliance with the statutes pertaining to the hiring of foreign pilots, a formal complaint shall be filed with the Department of Labor.
Last edited by bafanguy; 13th Feb 2018 at 20:29.
