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Anna's Friday Liar. 13/10/17

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Anna's Friday Liar. 13/10/17

Old 16th Oct 2017, 05:51
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
Posts: 20
The 'separate deal' rumour is 100% false.
Don't let other people rile you up.
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Old 16th Oct 2017, 06:30
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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There seem to be a few mischief makers amongst us, including some that are romantically linked.
Truth, a bunch got together over some drinks and 3rd floor types dipped their toe in the water to asses the temperature. Why they would need to is beyond my explanation but they got a very "warm" response. The rumour ref a special deal is bullshit. The trainers as a group are not interested, period. I don't know how to say it more clearly than that.
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Old 16th Oct 2017, 07:54
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: VHHH Ocean 2D
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Don't forget that the "C & T Fraternity" includes the HKAOA Chairman. Amazingly.
The only thing that is worse than that statement is how the AOA 'fraternity' haven't made a bigger deal of this and pulled him up on not resigning from training. No one blinked an eyelid when he had the audacity to ask other airlines to do the dirty work he wasn't prepared to do and asked them not to answer any CX calls to train our pilots.

Lame duck of a Chairman and GC and an AOA majority who don't give a Sh1t. Strike? Haha, whatever.
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Old 16th Oct 2017, 08:28
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Lav
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Originally Posted by betpump5 View Post
The only thing that is worse than that statement is how the AOA 'fraternity' haven't made a bigger deal of this and pulled him up on not resigning from training. No one blinked an eyelid when he had the audacity to ask other airlines to do the dirty work he wasn't prepared to do and asked them not to answer any CX calls to train our pilots.

Lame duck of a Chairman and GC and an AOA majority who don't give a Sh1t. Strike? Haha, whatever.
Why don't you (as a group) recall him or hold a no confidence vote? It's crazy that your union has done next to nothing since the announcement of the withdrawal of ARAPA. Not even so much as a meeting to get a consensus of the direction or course of action you, as a pilot group, should take. The only communication forthcoming is to tell you CC is on hold for the typhoon. It's %#@$*& cray cray.

Am I missing something?

Last edited by Amber Vibes; 16th Oct 2017 at 09:26.
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Old 16th Oct 2017, 09:31
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Good question which I actually pre-answered. See my second paragraph regarding AOA majority.
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Old 16th Oct 2017, 10:21
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Originally Posted by Amber Vibes View Post
Why don't you (as a group) recall him or hold a no confidence vote? It's crazy that your union has done next to nothing since the announcement of the withdrawal of ARAPA. Not even so much as a meeting to get a consensus of the direction or course of action you, as a pilot group, should take. The only communication forthcoming is to tell you CC is on hold for the typhoon. It's %#@$*& cray cray.

Am I missing something?
Re-read the AOA update regarding CC during the typhoon.
Iíve a feeling youíre missing lots.
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Old 16th Oct 2017, 18:53
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Arctic Circle
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The harsh and unpalatable reality for Cathay Pacific pilots, particularly those presently provided for under “legacy” terms and conditions, is that sum levels of remuneration are inexorably in significant decline.

Unfortunately there is no scope available for comprehensive, co-ordinated and crippling industrial action, without incurring crushing retaliation. Indeed, any attempt at such would invariably be undermined by the large army of self-serving lickspittles sadly prevalent amongst pilot cohorts.

This is the inherent risk of taking employment with an organisation adhering to an antiquated master / servant mentality, and ultimately governed and motivated by eighteenth century labour laws and attitudes.

There are but two realistic outcomes to the current malaise; pilots resigning in such significant numbers that the laws of supply and demand dictate an increase in the recompense on offer, which of course is of no benefit to those possessing the personal integrity and fortitude to have already departed, or alternatively the status quo continues. As management are no doubt aware, this then results in a remaining cowed expatriate employee group, many of whom were unable for various reasons to obtain employment with the national carriers of their native western countries and have limited viable alternatives, quietly acquiescing to whatever is forced upon them.

Inevitably this will lead to the majority quietly submitting to the degradation and erosion of their terms and conditions, in order to maintain ongoing employment and an income of some description, albeit diminished.

This of course assumes the continued ongoing existence and viability of the company, which given the structural, competitive and systemic issues it faces, is far from certain.

Last edited by Fool Sufferer; 17th Oct 2017 at 01:56.
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Old 16th Oct 2017, 20:15
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Boring bloke alert
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Old 16th Oct 2017, 21:28
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Dan, I think you will find that many of us are about to do a lot. Not a good idea to book holiday travel on CX.
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Old 16th Oct 2017, 21:35
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: VHHH Ocean 2D
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More like "No Sh1t let's state the blindingly obvious" guy alert.
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Old 17th Oct 2017, 02:37
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Fool Sufferer

I reckon you need to stop gulping the Koolaid and I call BS.

You say the financial viability of Cathay is at risk. Quite a few other people who consider themselves not to be foolsufferers see CX very differently.

1. 12 months ago the CX share price was $10.30 and it's now $12.80. The market appears to disagree with you.
2. In that 12 month period, a fairly savvy investor has taken a 9% stake in CX because he sees the stock as a turn-around story. He even recently taunted Swires saying he would buy them out because he saw CX as a $20 stock. That investor disagrees with you.
3. In amongst all the doom and gloom spun by the Company's spin masters, the Company committed to purchase DHL's share of Air HK for cash and signed a major deal for A320s. It also has long-standing orders for A50s and 777X. The lenders and manufacturers seem to be confident in CX's future, unlike you.
4. Sure, management has become complacent and bloated and has lost its way on the revenue front. Fuel and interest rates remain historically low, the world economy remains buoyant and that drives high load factors. I disagree, the fundamentals are in fact very sound. The company just needs wise leadership to resolve the revenue issues and restore Cathay as a premium product, whilst keeping costs under control. I believe that will happen eventually, however it is true we could suffer some short term pain whilst management fumbles around.

As for pilots' earnings diminishing, that's a function of the pilot industry. I sense you don't work here, but if any HK-based CX pilot compares their Sept 14 pay-check to their Sep 17 pay-check and the 2017 pay-check is not 10% higher, then that would be extraordinary.

The challenge for us all is to now hang onto what we have whilst management continues to fumble in the dark. For us, this has becomes a function of backbone.... ie ... Having one...
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Old 17th Oct 2017, 04:17
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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but I still think the operation should have shutdown the night the letter confirming ARAPA's demise was sent out.
Maybe not. That letter coincided with the start of low season. Disruptions the next day would have been annoying, but not catastrophic. Moving forward 9 or so weeks from that letter, however, puts us at the beginning of December......
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Old 17th Oct 2017, 04:18
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Sai Kung, Hong Kong
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Forgive the intrusion but I used to work for CX many years ago and I am now with Ryanair. The two companies are very different but over the last few years our conditions were just steadily being tramped over by our CEO who thought he 'was' the company.

Our recent action started off totally un co-ordinated but within a week we had organised sadly something you guys at CX seem unable to do. We have gained the support of unions throughout the world and during my recent trip to meet with reps at AA they told me they knew nothing of the plight of pilots in Hong Kong. It begs the question "what is the HKAOA doing?" It would appear absolutely nothing.
In Ryanair we have set up a new union within 10 days and I suggest you do the same. Then, as we did write to the ultimate bosses the shareholders and bypass your CEO and DFO as we did. They answer to the shareholders.
You will read today at out biggest base EGSS we have rejected the latest offer from MO and his position is now under real threat.
I urge you to 'act'. Do something and the travelling public will at least respect you if not like you but it is better than just rolling over which from an outsiders view you appear to be doing.
You are better than this. Do something NOW and good luck to you all.

Last edited by Dead Serious; 17th Oct 2017 at 13:27.
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Old 17th Oct 2017, 15:10
  #54 (permalink)  
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....are you listening DS and co...? In the meantime, everyone of us must plan on their own personal part in sending a message to the company. Otherwise, please....don't complain to me after the beginning of the year about your conditions.
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Old 17th Oct 2017, 15:24
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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CX historically has hired some pretty talented folks with backgrounds of achievement and quality. Hard workers, dedicated professionals, demonstrated track record in their career.

And now we find ourselves where we are.

"You are better than this"

I think that says it all.

Thank you for that.
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Old 17th Oct 2017, 15:38
  #56 (permalink)  
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We are better than the way in which we are being treated. Basically, I reject being lied to, intimidated and having my professionalism taken for granted. Therefore, as I am but one small part in a big machine, I will take my own small but considered action to express my disgust in the way I am being treated. And the rest of you...?
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Old 17th Oct 2017, 16:17
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Lav
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The suggestion that you get rid of your union at this moment in time could be disastrous. CX management would love it if this happened. They would be delighted with the distraction as they ram ARAPA cuts through. It's one thing to recall your leader for incompetence or inaction, it's quite another to completely do away with your union during this crucial period. However, if the ARAPA cut is allowed to happen with no attempt to intervene other than the status quo CC, then your union is well and truly useless, and you should consider saving your money on union dues.

Also, do your bylaws allow for an individual union member to put forward a motion to do something more effective than CC?

Last edited by Amber Vibes; 17th Oct 2017 at 16:32.
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Old 17th Oct 2017, 22:03
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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It begs the question "what is the HKAOA doing?" It would appear absolutely nothing.
Hahaha Dead Serious. That's the question WE have also been asking and have come up with the exact same answer! And this coming from a guy at an airline where until a week ago, you weren't even allowed a union. The AOA are a global disgrace.
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Old 17th Oct 2017, 22:44
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
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It begs the question "what is the HKAOA doing?" It would appear absolutely nothing.
It has been communicated many times that the AOA leadership is on leave at this time. Give them time.
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Old 17th Oct 2017, 23:14
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Sai Kung, Hong Kong
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How convenient !
When do they return ? 1st January 2018 and all as Tc's ?
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