Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Direct Entry FO

Old 20th Mar 2017, 13:38
  #1 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Aug 2013
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Direct Entry FO

So I see that Cathay is doing direct entry FOs if you have 1000+ airline hours. Does that mean when second officers upgrade they'll keep pushing me down in seniority or is each position independent?
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Old 20th Mar 2017, 13:59
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is there resentment then for guys coming in as direct entry FOs?
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Old 20th Mar 2017, 14:45
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Is that because people aren't applying or is the program very difficult to get accepted into?
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Old 20th Mar 2017, 14:49
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Join Date: May 2016
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Unofficially the plan is to scrap Adelaide altogether.. direct entry only.
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Old 20th Mar 2017, 15:15
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Originally Posted by FlyinColo View Post
is there resentment then for guys coming in as direct entry FOs?
Yes there is resentment, hate, and anger from SO's. You will go to the bottom of the seniority list and keep getting bypasses for rosters, vacation, etc etc. You are stealing our jobs and letting the company get away with cheap labor. DEFOs are part of the problem.
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Old 20th Mar 2017, 15:15
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How does it work with bidding aircraft when you get in? I see it's only 330 or 747 cargo. Do they assign it or we can pick? How long are you seat locked to that aircraft? Finally how long is the upgrades ?
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Old 20th Mar 2017, 15:40
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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Recruitment Ban

Let's vote to include a Recruitment Ban
As part of the CC.

Why they hell should folk come here with a big smile and while we wither on the vine.

Who's in?

+1
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Old 20th Mar 2017, 15:59
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So.....anyone interested to answer my question?
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Old 20th Mar 2017, 16:03
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I don't think you will see any resentment from the Captains, rather a sigh of relief to have an FO who actually has some hands on flying experience.
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Old 20th Mar 2017, 16:11
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Originally Posted by bellcrank88 View Post
I don't think you will see any resentment from the Captains, rather a sigh of relief to have an FO who actually has some hands on flying experience.
I've done all kinds of hand flying turboprop flying without an AP and now I'm flying a CRJ 900. So not like I walked out of flight school and got a job like a lot of the SOs. It was just a different path cause we don't have the SO programs here. But if I could get on with Cathay now or wait for a US major that's 6 years away I'd rather get onto my final job now.
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Old 20th Mar 2017, 16:48
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Maybe one of the many Yanks who have left Cathay after 10+ years to go to a US major can chime in and give you some insight.

Things are very very different here. And I don't mean that in a good way.

Read this forum. Look at the history.

I wish I could post it's just a bunch of naysayers but that would be a lie.
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Old 20th Mar 2017, 18:18
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Join Date: Oct 2005
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I have been here 11 years and have been waiting to get a base in the US for 6. If you ever wish to return home you may as well stay and fly for Allegiant or JB for a few years. This was supposed to be my "final job" as well, but each passing day makes me think that will not be the case.

box
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Old 20th Mar 2017, 19:23
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Join Date: Mar 2015
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Pick the 747, you won't be on it long, a few years max, and then you'll be offered a US base on the 777X possibly A350 but doubtful.

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Old 20th Mar 2017, 19:54
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Originally Posted by Natca View Post
Yes there is resentment, hate, and anger from SO's. You will go to the bottom of the seniority list and keep getting bypasses for rosters, vacation, etc etc. You are stealing our jobs and letting the company get away with cheap labor. DEFOs are part of the problem.
Could you explain yourself a little more for us outsiders?

I turned down an SO interview a few years ago because the salary was too low for me in my personal situation to live in Hong Kong. In fact, the terms I was shown two years ago showed year 1 FO about 10 000HKD less per month than what they are showing now. So can someone please explain how DEFO are cheaper labor than SO?
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Old 20th Mar 2017, 20:14
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I find it slightly ironic that an SO can be accusing someone of cheap labor in the first place.

The only reason SO's exist anywhere is for cost reduction???

Last edited by drfaust; 20th Mar 2017 at 20:46.
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Old 20th Mar 2017, 21:42
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What's the current upgrade time like out there now?
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Old 20th Mar 2017, 22:11
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SO -> JFO 3-4 years

SO/DEFO -> Captain 11-13 years
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Old 20th Mar 2017, 23:16
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11 years to command is now. That will slow (is already?) once our ex-A and early "super" B scalers are retired. The unknown variables are airline growth (or contraction) and attrition of those leaving for greener pastures. Hard to predict those.
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Old 20th Mar 2017, 23:48
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: with the other ex-CX pond scum (a zoologist was once head of Flight Ops)
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Also factor the airport's and airspace's capacity at Hong Kong. The Chinese have not changed the airspace for decades and with competition from the growing Hainan Group airlines for slots, my bet is that in a few years expansion will stop. CX will be going nowhere.

In that case, it will be dead men's shoes for commands.
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Old 21st Mar 2017, 02:50
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Join Date: Dec 2004
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CX will reap what it sows.

On all fleets the CN upgrades are predominately experienced FOs who joined circa 2006-2008 (commands pending). The success rate is and will continue to be high for the next 18mth+. However, many of the JFO upgrades are at present from ex cadets with little or no experience prior to CX, many are struggling. (babysitting the AP anyone?). With training resources dwindling by the month management continue to squander resources, the 150 sector upgrade is on the cards.

Whilst every new joiner doesn't have to be ex Thunderbirds pilots, they should know the basics of stick and rudder, sadly this now seems to be missing.
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