Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Told you so

Old 17th Mar 2017, 08:05
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 52
Posts: 27
Told you so

To the great amusement of Curtain Rod, Cxorcist, Shep, Trafalgar et al, I told you many many many times:

ACCEPT THE PAY OFFER, CC IS NOT WORKING

Now we will get NOTHING.



PS and a big thank you to our HKPA rebels. Well done, fools.
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Old 17th Mar 2017, 10:36
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 2
Possibly even worse than nothing when we get sold out for more productivity!
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Old 17th Mar 2017, 10:56
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Honkytown
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Originally Posted by Hugo Peroni the IV View Post
Possibly even worse than nothing when we get sold out for more productivity!
I'd like to see how they could make me more productive.
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Old 17th Mar 2017, 14:19
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: az
Posts: 230
stop acting like a bunch of girls. The airline can't fly without pilots.... grow a set of balls! The assistant mao mentioned 30% raises on the way. That is totally in line with my expectations and what we are underpaid by, and I demand nothing else. So should you. HKPA has threatened more $ than the HKPA raise they are seeking. That has been a company led win..... so lets move on with things.
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Old 17th Mar 2017, 15:19
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Join Date: May 2009
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I thought we saw the last of you? You just couldn't stay away could you, Paul?

Last edited by betpump5; 17th Mar 2017 at 15:50.
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Old 17th Mar 2017, 16:13
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Fragrant Harbour
Posts: 308
Well, its pretty clear now what will be coming, productivity gains (raise in EFP threshold) and changes to expatriate housing. And of course do not forget the review of outport allowances.
It is also pretty clear that the HKAOA will not be able to do anything about it. It will be the take it or leave approach.
Anyone who deferred their command recently should reconsider. Upgrade now and after 1000 hours command experience many new job alternatives will be available.
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Old 17th Mar 2017, 18:08
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: U/S
Posts: 282
This might be a great opportunity to get some things in return for a little sacrifice.

Like say....25 year housing?
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Old 17th Mar 2017, 18:26
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 1
The productivity and efficiency gains sought by CX are sitting there waiting to be utilized in the form of bases and the CMP. The question is whether the Company and the TUs are smart enough to utilize them in meaningful ways. I doubt it, sadly.
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Old 17th Mar 2017, 20:15
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: with the other ex-CX pond scum (a zoologist was once head of Flight Ops)
Posts: 0
STW, 'thank you' for voluntarily training all those cheap pilots. Gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling does it? You've done more damage to the bargaining position of those on my pay scale than the company could ever have done.
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Old 17th Mar 2017, 23:24
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 20
You told us so??

Sam Ting Wong,

Do you seriously believe that the Company would have honoured the 2016 Pay Deal?

They would have reneged on the deal and you would still be getting nothing, however we would have signed away our industrial weapons. That is why the likes of Curtain Rod, Shep, CXorcist Trafalgar said walk away.

Are you new here or just a slow learner?
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Old 18th Mar 2017, 00:21
  #11 (permalink)  
mtc
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: East
Posts: 31
Seriously?? I think we've hit a new level of pessimism here. The company would have reneged their end of the deal and expected us to stay out of cc? Let's not forget that cc and tb are self imposed. Who is gonna stop me from continuing? "Industrial action." Right. The only thing I'll ever start doing again is finding out what I'm doing on reserve before they call. I think new joiner naivity is only matched by old timer fear of the worst. Once (ten times) bitten twice shy?
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Old 18th Mar 2017, 13:18
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 285
the bottom line is that none..NONE of the culprits that should carry the cross on destroying this firm will get culled..not james Ginn..not martin Murray with his 2 kids at harrow.. not Ivan..with his major fcuk ups since his appointment..and hey.. maybe thats why JB resigned..who wouldn't if you suddenly realised you were working with cretins...
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Old 20th Mar 2017, 02:50
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 296
Absolutely agree STW - years of blah blah and rah rah and what do we have to show - f.all - in fact we are all worse off - sometimes you have to be pragmatic and pick your battles.

Cc is dead in the water whether you like it or not with no end in sight, and there won't be a better deal on the table anytime soon.
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Old 20th Mar 2017, 06:16
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 325
Originally Posted by wheels up View Post
Absolutely agree STW - years of blah blah and rah rah and what do we have to show - f.all - in fact we are all worse off - sometimes you have to be pragmatic and pick your battles.

Cc is dead in the water whether you like it or not with no end in sight, and there won't be a better deal on the table anytime soon.
Hilarious....and exactly which battles have you fought in the past to know any different? Better deal? Are you referring to that smelly piece of crap on offer last year? Amazing how quickly some roll over and play dead.

The sooner I leave this industry the sooner I won't have to listen to spineless buffoons like STW and wheelsup!
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Old 21st Mar 2017, 11:32
  #15 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 52
Posts: 27
Rod, who said I am scared? You and your friends are the emotional ones.
For me this was and still is : business.
Nothing else.

You and your comrades declined a pay offer, declined a subtantial HKPA increase.

I did say this is foolish, and I was right.
I did say CC is not working, and I was right.
I did say attrition rate was low and it will continue to be so, and I was right.
I did say recruitment is not a problem, and I was right.

Now, thanks to your ignorance, we will get nothing ( if we are lucky ).

Thanks a lot !
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Old 21st Mar 2017, 12:23
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Nimbus
Posts: 90
We get nothing, they get nothing.

CC is not working because they are not offering enough.

But it is hurting, as is the TB.
They just don't want to admit it, they are still trying their luck with bluffing.

Do you know how much CC and crewing issues impacted the operations last year?
On the freighter only, the delays caused only by lack of crew (not technical or loading issues) amounted to the equivalent of one B748 being AoG for 3 months!

How can the TB hurt less than last year when we lost so many trainers to retirement, resignations, medical issues...

Don't fold for their bluff!

StW, recruitment not a problem? Did you miss the part from the friday letter stating the we can't find enough pilots with suitable experience?

What has changed since the negotiations last year? The 500m hkd losses (of which, 7.5b hkd were due to the fuel hedging)?
Don't tell me you (or the management) didn't know it was coming?
That loss had always been known to the other side, and yet they offered something a few months ago.
The only thing that has changed is that people like STW are now even more scared by their own shadow than last year.

Don't accept anything worse than last time.
Don't forget that if we accept a sub-par offer, we won't have any more leverage for the next 10 years.
Don't accept a productivity increase for a meager pay raise that will be eaten by inflation in 2 years.

Last edited by Zapp_Brannigan; 21st Mar 2017 at 13:18.
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Old 21st Mar 2017, 13:19
  #17 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 52
Posts: 27
Hopeless. Simply hopeless.
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Old 21st Mar 2017, 13:55
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 2
Not really hopeless STW. My maths in early 2016 suggested the need for an, without hedging, 8 billion dollar profit to break even. The CX mathematicians would've calculated the same.

Amidst simple maths, based on long standing hedges, we were offered a deal.

It's simple really. But simple folk don't see simple things too clearly?
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 05:40
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 325
You're a fool anotherday. There has never been a 30% salary cut in the past. Do you have many sleepless nights trembling in constant fear? Let them try it on! You would be surprised as to how many would leave. There would be no financial incentive for many expats to stay. For many locals they would shift over to HKA.
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 06:15
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: U/S
Posts: 282
You're missing the point Dragon.

The majority of this pilot group would roll right over like a beaten dog.

When has this group stood up to ANYTHING??

In typical fashion, the company will seek individual groups to take from knowing the majority will not oppose because "it doesn't affect me directly"
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