Told you so
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 504
Likes: 1
From: one country, one system
Told you so
To the great amusement of Curtain Rod, Cxorcist, Shep, Trafalgar et al, I told you many many many times:
ACCEPT THE PAY OFFER, CC IS NOT WORKING
Now we will get NOTHING.
PS and a big thank you to our HKPA rebels. Well done, fools.
ACCEPT THE PAY OFFER, CC IS NOT WORKING
Now we will get NOTHING.
PS and a big thank you to our HKPA rebels. Well done, fools.
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 230
Likes: 0
From: az
stop acting like a bunch of girls. The airline can't fly without pilots.... grow a set of balls! The assistant mao mentioned 30% raises on the way. That is totally in line with my expectations and what we are underpaid by, and I demand nothing else. So should you. HKPA has threatened more $ than the HKPA raise they are seeking. That has been a company led win..... so lets move on with things.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 314
Likes: 0
From: Fragrant Harbour
Well, its pretty clear now what will be coming, productivity gains (raise in EFP threshold) and changes to expatriate housing. And of course do not forget the review of outport allowances.
It is also pretty clear that the HKAOA will not be able to do anything about it. It will be the take it or leave approach.
Anyone who deferred their command recently should reconsider. Upgrade now and after 1000 hours command experience many new job alternatives will be available.
It is also pretty clear that the HKAOA will not be able to do anything about it. It will be the take it or leave approach.
Anyone who deferred their command recently should reconsider. Upgrade now and after 1000 hours command experience many new job alternatives will be available.
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 0
Likes: 1
From: Polar Route
The productivity and efficiency gains sought by CX are sitting there waiting to be utilized in the form of bases and the CMP. The question is whether the Company and the TUs are smart enough to utilize them in meaningful ways. I doubt it, sadly.
Joined: Jul 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 1,953
Likes: 172
From: with the ex-CX pond scum (a zoologist was once head of Flight Ops)
STW, 'thank you' for voluntarily training all those cheap pilots. Gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling does it? You've done more damage to the bargaining position of those on my pay scale than the company could ever have done.
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
You told us so??
Sam Ting Wong,
Do you seriously believe that the Company would have honoured the 2016 Pay Deal?
They would have reneged on the deal and you would still be getting nothing, however we would have signed away our industrial weapons. That is why the likes of Curtain Rod, Shep, CXorcist Trafalgar said walk away.
Are you new here or just a slow learner?
Do you seriously believe that the Company would have honoured the 2016 Pay Deal?
They would have reneged on the deal and you would still be getting nothing, however we would have signed away our industrial weapons. That is why the likes of Curtain Rod, Shep, CXorcist Trafalgar said walk away.
Are you new here or just a slow learner?
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
From: East
Seriously?? I think we've hit a new level of pessimism here. The company would have reneged their end of the deal and expected us to stay out of cc? Let's not forget that cc and tb are self imposed. Who is gonna stop me from continuing? "Industrial action." Right. The only thing I'll ever start doing again is finding out what I'm doing on reserve before they call. I think new joiner naivity is only matched by old timer fear of the worst. Once (ten times) bitten twice shy?
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 284
Likes: 1
From: Hong Kong
the bottom line is that none..NONE of the culprits that should carry the cross on destroying this firm will get culled..not james Ginn..not martin Murray with his 2 kids at harrow.. not Ivan..with his major fcuk ups since his appointment..and hey.. maybe thats why JB resigned..who wouldn't if you suddenly realised you were working with cretins...
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 305
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
Absolutely agree STW - years of blah blah and rah rah and what do we have to show - f.all - in fact we are all worse off - sometimes you have to be pragmatic and pick your battles.
Cc is dead in the water whether you like it or not with no end in sight, and there won't be a better deal on the table anytime soon.
Cc is dead in the water whether you like it or not with no end in sight, and there won't be a better deal on the table anytime soon.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 322
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
Absolutely agree STW - years of blah blah and rah rah and what do we have to show - f.all - in fact we are all worse off - sometimes you have to be pragmatic and pick your battles.
Cc is dead in the water whether you like it or not with no end in sight, and there won't be a better deal on the table anytime soon.
Cc is dead in the water whether you like it or not with no end in sight, and there won't be a better deal on the table anytime soon.
The sooner I leave this industry the sooner I won't have to listen to spineless buffoons like STW and wheelsup!
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 504
Likes: 1
From: one country, one system
Rod, who said I am scared? You and your friends are the emotional ones.
For me this was and still is : business.
Nothing else.
You and your comrades declined a pay offer, declined a subtantial HKPA increase.
I did say this is foolish, and I was right.
I did say CC is not working, and I was right.
I did say attrition rate was low and it will continue to be so, and I was right.
I did say recruitment is not a problem, and I was right.
Now, thanks to your ignorance, we will get nothing ( if we are lucky ).
Thanks a lot !
For me this was and still is : business.
Nothing else.
You and your comrades declined a pay offer, declined a subtantial HKPA increase.
I did say this is foolish, and I was right.
I did say CC is not working, and I was right.
I did say attrition rate was low and it will continue to be so, and I was right.
I did say recruitment is not a problem, and I was right.
Now, thanks to your ignorance, we will get nothing ( if we are lucky ).
Thanks a lot !
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
From: Nimbus
We get nothing, they get nothing.
CC is not working because they are not offering enough.
But it is hurting, as is the TB.
They just don't want to admit it, they are still trying their luck with bluffing.
Do you know how much CC and crewing issues impacted the operations last year?
On the freighter only, the delays caused only by lack of crew (not technical or loading issues) amounted to the equivalent of one B748 being AoG for 3 months!
How can the TB hurt less than last year when we lost so many trainers to retirement, resignations, medical issues...
Don't fold for their bluff!
StW, recruitment not a problem? Did you miss the part from the friday letter stating the we can't find enough pilots with suitable experience?
What has changed since the negotiations last year? The 500m hkd losses (of which, 7.5b hkd were due to the fuel hedging)?
Don't tell me you (or the management) didn't know it was coming?
That loss had always been known to the other side, and yet they offered something a few months ago.
The only thing that has changed is that people like STW are now even more scared by their own shadow than last year.
Don't accept anything worse than last time.
Don't forget that if we accept a sub-par offer, we won't have any more leverage for the next 10 years.
Don't accept a productivity increase for a meager pay raise that will be eaten by inflation in 2 years.
CC is not working because they are not offering enough.
But it is hurting, as is the TB.
They just don't want to admit it, they are still trying their luck with bluffing.
Do you know how much CC and crewing issues impacted the operations last year?
On the freighter only, the delays caused only by lack of crew (not technical or loading issues) amounted to the equivalent of one B748 being AoG for 3 months!
How can the TB hurt less than last year when we lost so many trainers to retirement, resignations, medical issues...
Don't fold for their bluff!
StW, recruitment not a problem? Did you miss the part from the friday letter stating the we can't find enough pilots with suitable experience?
What has changed since the negotiations last year? The 500m hkd losses (of which, 7.5b hkd were due to the fuel hedging)?
Don't tell me you (or the management) didn't know it was coming?
That loss had always been known to the other side, and yet they offered something a few months ago.
The only thing that has changed is that people like STW are now even more scared by their own shadow than last year.
Don't accept anything worse than last time.
Don't forget that if we accept a sub-par offer, we won't have any more leverage for the next 10 years.
Don't accept a productivity increase for a meager pay raise that will be eaten by inflation in 2 years.
Last edited by Zapp_Brannigan; 21st March 2017 at 13:18.
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
Not really hopeless STW. My maths in early 2016 suggested the need for an, without hedging, 8 billion dollar profit to break even. The CX mathematicians would've calculated the same.
Amidst simple maths, based on long standing hedges, we were offered a deal.
It's simple really. But simple folk don't see simple things too clearly?
Amidst simple maths, based on long standing hedges, we were offered a deal.
It's simple really. But simple folk don't see simple things too clearly?
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 322
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
You're a fool anotherday. There has never been a 30% salary cut in the past. Do you have many sleepless nights trembling in constant fear? Let them try it on! You would be surprised as to how many would leave. There would be no financial incentive for many expats to stay. For many locals they would shift over to HKA.
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
From: U/S
You're missing the point Dragon.
The majority of this pilot group would roll right over like a beaten dog.
When has this group stood up to ANYTHING??
In typical fashion, the company will seek individual groups to take from knowing the majority will not oppose because "it doesn't affect me directly"
The majority of this pilot group would roll right over like a beaten dog.
When has this group stood up to ANYTHING??
In typical fashion, the company will seek individual groups to take from knowing the majority will not oppose because "it doesn't affect me directly"