Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Told you so

Old 23rd Mar 2017, 06:52
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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What would motivate anyone to sign a "sign or be fired" contract apart from pure ignorance of who they are dealing with?

They've tried sign or be fired in the past but as we all know, didn't fire anyone.
Our current pay deal was rejected by the members with the threat that the deal would be off the table. It was improved.
RP07 was rejected with similar threats. Improvements were made.
No 49er would be rehired. Many are still here.
Will get one chance and one chance only to sign over to COS08. People have been changing contracts ad hoc ever since.
The list goes on.

They are bullies who make threats but never follow through.
They can't even repeat the sackings by a chemically fueled fool of 2001. That clause in our contract is currently suspended by the GFBAF. Couldn't imagine they would be in a rush to head back to court for more unfair dismissal hearings. The bases don't even have that clause.

AT will tell us that turnover is low. While low compared to other airlines, the first 3 months of 2017 has seen a 200% increase in departures from last year. By the nature of CX's work, training replacements is a time consuming process compared to airlines that have a high frequency domestic network. Our turnover is comparatively low. It has to be.
Now they are admitting they can't attract qualified crew. Somehow I don't think damaging their industrial relations image while simultaneously reducing the contract conditions will help much.

STW/anotherday,
I can't tell you not to be scared if a threat ever eventuates. If you need to keep the bedroom light on so be it. But you really should stop jumping at the shadows cast by the table lamp.
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 06:53
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Everyone would sign.

I would, then I'd look for another job.

Everyone would do that, too.
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 08:34
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Drag69:
There has never been a 30% salary cut in the past
Wrong!

The Aus base (and maybe others, I cannot remember) had to take a 30% pay cut in '99.

Arranged by the union!!!
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 09:17
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by OK4Wire
Drag69:

Wrong!

The Aus base (and maybe others, I cannot remember) had to take a 30% pay cut in '99.

Arranged by the union!!!
You're spouting utter BS.
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 09:40
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Dragon69, you have obviously not been here very long. Yes 23% pay cut for the Aussie base spread from 1999 to 2001, and lesser amounts for other bases. All pilots were given 3 months notice, i.e fired. ALL pilots signed at the 11th hour. The only change the AOA succeeded in making was the scope clause.
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Old 23rd Mar 2017, 17:34
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ipad
Dragon69, you have obviously not been here very long. Yes 23% pay cut for the Aussie base spread from 1999 to 2001, and lesser amounts for other bases. All pilots were given 3 months notice, i.e fired. ALL pilots signed at the 11th hour. The only change the AOA succeeded in making was the scope clause.

For the A scale Au base, was 30%. Agree the AOA had no input.
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Old 24th Mar 2017, 11:21
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Hi Frank,
What full time jobs are out there for experienced skippers that makes it worth the trouble and risk of resigning from this lot.
Show me a job for a company that has a reasonable culture, reasonable colleagues, long term prospects, net US$ 25-30k per month and +15 GDO's. If you do, this outfit has one less pissed off employee to worry about.
I am sure the mainland gigs (CSA, etc.) are ok'ish but far away from ideal.
As Andrew Marr would say, "I am all ears"
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Old 24th Mar 2017, 11:51
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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CSA etc etc
Are you listening! , up the ante and we will come IN DROVES !!
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Old 24th Mar 2017, 14:38
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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What Frank and EFIS are saying is true enough.

My perspective:

There is a significant demographic of elders [!] who can probably leave anytime, but quite enjoy the operation: Predominantly there's great people sharing a flight deck. For me, it's generally fun once HKG is in the rear view mirror and I enjoy my quiet times down route.

P155 me off completely Anna, I'll move along....OK? Not, necessarily into retirement.
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Old 27th Mar 2017, 07:05
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Too much negativity

Why don't you guys simply leave the company ??
What I can't understand is how can someone continue working in a place he doesn't like. Just LEAVE and stop moaning!
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Old 27th Mar 2017, 09:58
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Originally Posted by Mgggpilot
Why don't you guys simply leave the company ??
What I can't understand is how can someone continue working in a place he doesn't like. Just LEAVE and stop moaning!
Seniority ********
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Old 18th May 2017, 11:24
  #32 (permalink)  
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5% was the offer. 5% plus housing. Plus 20 % HKPA.
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Old 18th May 2017, 14:07
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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No It wasn't.
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Old 19th May 2017, 00:02
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong
5% was the offer. 5% plus housing. Plus 20 % HKPA.
Either way that ship has sailed so whar's your point?
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Old 19th May 2017, 06:50
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Why don't you guys simply leave the company ??
What I can't understand is how can someone continue working in a place he doesn't like. Just LEAVE and stop moaning!
Cos he'll never get another one so easily.
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Old 16th Aug 2017, 09:11
  #36 (permalink)  
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Cathay Pacific posts HK$2.05 billion loss for first half of 2017
http://sc.mp/JA02SD
Just one final quick thank you to all NO voters.

Brilliant move.
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Old 16th Aug 2017, 10:11
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong
Just one final quick thank you to all NO voters.

Brilliant move.
STW if you were half as smart as you try to make your self out to be you would see this is a "manufactured" loss.
We have a new contact coming Oct 1st. Will that be the collective fault of the pilot body as well?
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Old 16th Aug 2017, 10:15
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Well, as the old Soviet saying goes: "if they pretend to pay me, i'll pretend to work".
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Old 16th Aug 2017, 10:53
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Funny how most of you still slam the YES voters. Do you only do this behind the safety of your computer? It is extremely weird and funny to see whenever I mentioned I voted YES for the deal during a flight, 99% of the people said they voted YES as well.
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Old 16th Aug 2017, 11:08
  #40 (permalink)  
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Fire Wall,

in my opinion you and most in here are getting lost in a totally pointless moral argument.

When it comes to contract negotiations it doesn't matter if it is a "true" loss, it doesn't matter whose fault it is, it doesn't matter if management is stupid or what kind of boni they get. I don't even care who the person in charge is, it doesn't matter if they are in Stanford or sipping champagne on the peak, it doesn't matter if they have a pilots license, it doesn't matter if they abolish the salt and pepper shaker, it doesn't matter why people join as long as they do, it doesn't matter!

All that counts is what we can achieve in this moment and what is at stake.


Look at it from a car crash perspective:

You are on a motorcycle, a bus with managers comes your way.

Is it relevant who has right of way if you collide and you get decapitated ?

Or would it be smarter to brake in any case?

The loss will have a negative impact on us, if we like it or not, and YES it is our collective fault because we would have a 2 year contract that safeguards us until the hedging disaster is hopefully behind us.


Now, the reason I keep bringing this up is very simple:

you guys keep on posting like all is well, just a bit of a bump on the road to final victory!

I say: get real. Have an HONEST look at the average pay of other airlines, have a REALISTIC check of your working conditions/ roster compared to our competitors.

If you guys think this is all a bit of a joke, and if things fall apart you just go on that 300k contract, well think again. These contracts are rare, they have pitfalls, they require you to work much harder and give you zero protection. Everytime you praise other airlines you do cherry picking at best, it appears to me that most of you have no idea what the current packages elsewhere even look like!

95 % of B scalers would face SIGNIFICANT worse conditions elsewhere.I am talking losses of 50% plus! And you guys keep talking about what a c scaler should or shouldn't do, or if he is maybe better of st Emirates or BA. I just don't get it. It's like discussing politics on the deck of the titanic. What is the point???

We need to offer peace now or we will be face the consequences.

I hope the AOA GC and membership is more responsible today, but my hopes are not high.
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