Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Told you so

Old 23rd Mar 2017, 06:52
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Cesspit
Posts: 316
What would motivate anyone to sign a "sign or be fired" contract apart from pure ignorance of who they are dealing with?

They've tried sign or be fired in the past but as we all know, didn't fire anyone.
Our current pay deal was rejected by the members with the threat that the deal would be off the table. It was improved.
RP07 was rejected with similar threats. Improvements were made.
No 49er would be rehired. Many are still here.
Will get one chance and one chance only to sign over to COS08. People have been changing contracts ad hoc ever since.
The list goes on.

They are bullies who make threats but never follow through.
They can't even repeat the sackings by a chemically fueled fool of 2001. That clause in our contract is currently suspended by the GFBAF. Couldn't imagine they would be in a rush to head back to court for more unfair dismissal hearings. The bases don't even have that clause.

AT will tell us that turnover is low. While low compared to other airlines, the first 3 months of 2017 has seen a 200% increase in departures from last year. By the nature of CX's work, training replacements is a time consuming process compared to airlines that have a high frequency domestic network. Our turnover is comparatively low. It has to be.
Now they are admitting they can't attract qualified crew. Somehow I don't think damaging their industrial relations image while simultaneously reducing the contract conditions will help much.

STW/anotherday,
I can't tell you not to be scared if a threat ever eventuates. If you need to keep the bedroom light on so be it. But you really should stop jumping at the shadows cast by the table lamp.
Progress Wanchai is offline  
Old 23rd Mar 2017, 06:53
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Honkytown
Posts: 205
Everyone would sign.

I would, then I'd look for another job.

Everyone would do that, too.
McNugget is offline  
Old 23rd Mar 2017, 08:34
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 410
Drag69:
There has never been a 30% salary cut in the past
Wrong!

The Aus base (and maybe others, I cannot remember) had to take a 30% pay cut in '99.

Arranged by the union!!!
OK4Wire is offline  
Old 23rd Mar 2017, 09:17
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 325
Originally Posted by OK4Wire View Post
Drag69:

Wrong!

The Aus base (and maybe others, I cannot remember) had to take a 30% pay cut in '99.

Arranged by the union!!!
You're spouting utter BS.
Dragon69 is offline  
Old 23rd Mar 2017, 09:40
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Exist
Posts: 47
Dragon69, you have obviously not been here very long. Yes 23% pay cut for the Aussie base spread from 1999 to 2001, and lesser amounts for other bases. All pilots were given 3 months notice, i.e fired. ALL pilots signed at the 11th hour. The only change the AOA succeeded in making was the scope clause.
Ipad is offline  
Old 23rd Mar 2017, 17:34
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: HKG 'visitor'
Posts: 288
Originally Posted by Ipad View Post
Dragon69, you have obviously not been here very long. Yes 23% pay cut for the Aussie base spread from 1999 to 2001, and lesser amounts for other bases. All pilots were given 3 months notice, i.e fired. ALL pilots signed at the 11th hour. The only change the AOA succeeded in making was the scope clause.

For the A scale Au base, was 30%. Agree the AOA had no input.
spleener is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2017, 11:21
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: sdfsd
Age: 81
Posts: 24
Hi Frank,
What full time jobs are out there for experienced skippers that makes it worth the trouble and risk of resigning from this lot.
Show me a job for a company that has a reasonable culture, reasonable colleagues, long term prospects, net US$ 25-30k per month and +15 GDO's. If you do, this outfit has one less pissed off employee to worry about.
I am sure the mainland gigs (CSA, etc.) are ok'ish but far away from ideal.
As Andrew Marr would say, "I am all ears"
EFIS Check is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2017, 11:51
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: hong kong
Posts: 397
CSA etc etc
Are you listening! , up the ante and we will come IN DROVES !!
goathead is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2017, 14:38
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: HKG 'visitor'
Posts: 288
What Frank and EFIS are saying is true enough.

My perspective:

There is a significant demographic of elders [!] who can probably leave anytime, but quite enjoy the operation: Predominantly there's great people sharing a flight deck. For me, it's generally fun once HKG is in the rear view mirror and I enjoy my quiet times down route.

P155 me off completely Anna, I'll move along....OK? Not, necessarily into retirement.
spleener is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2017, 07:05
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: FinalApproach
Age: 39
Posts: 95
Too much negativity

Why don't you guys simply leave the company ??
What I can't understand is how can someone continue working in a place he doesn't like. Just LEAVE and stop moaning!
Mgggpilot is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2017, 09:58
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: HONG KONG
Posts: 86
Originally Posted by Mgggpilot View Post
Why don't you guys simply leave the company ??
What I can't understand is how can someone continue working in a place he doesn't like. Just LEAVE and stop moaning!
Seniority ********
Brown Nose is offline  
Old 18th May 2017, 11:24
  #32 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 52
Posts: 26
5% was the offer. 5% plus housing. Plus 20 % HKPA.
Sam Ting Wong is online now  
Old 18th May 2017, 14:07
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: VHHH Ocean 2D
Posts: 726
No It wasn't.
betpump5 is offline  
Old 19th May 2017, 00:02
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 45
Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong View Post
5% was the offer. 5% plus housing. Plus 20 % HKPA.
Either way that ship has sailed so whar's your point?
Staggers is offline  
Old 19th May 2017, 06:50
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Here
Posts: 462
Why don't you guys simply leave the company ??
What I can't understand is how can someone continue working in a place he doesn't like. Just LEAVE and stop moaning!
Cos he'll never get another one so easily.
crwkunt roll is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2017, 09:11
  #36 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 52
Posts: 26
Cathay Pacific posts HK$2.05 billion loss for first half of 2017
http://sc.mp/JA02SD
Just one final quick thank you to all NO voters.

Brilliant move.
Sam Ting Wong is online now  
Old 16th Aug 2017, 10:11
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 464
Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong View Post
Just one final quick thank you to all NO voters.

Brilliant move.
STW if you were half as smart as you try to make your self out to be you would see this is a "manufactured" loss.
We have a new contact coming Oct 1st. Will that be the collective fault of the pilot body as well?
fire wall is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2017, 10:15
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,544
Well, as the old Soviet saying goes: "if they pretend to pay me, i'll pretend to work".
Trafalgar is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2017, 10:53
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 60
Funny how most of you still slam the YES voters. Do you only do this behind the safety of your computer? It is extremely weird and funny to see whenever I mentioned I voted YES for the deal during a flight, 99% of the people said they voted YES as well.
cyrex is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2017, 11:08
  #40 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 52
Posts: 26
Fire Wall,

in my opinion you and most in here are getting lost in a totally pointless moral argument.

When it comes to contract negotiations it doesn't matter if it is a "true" loss, it doesn't matter whose fault it is, it doesn't matter if management is stupid or what kind of boni they get. I don't even care who the person in charge is, it doesn't matter if they are in Stanford or sipping champagne on the peak, it doesn't matter if they have a pilots license, it doesn't matter if they abolish the salt and pepper shaker, it doesn't matter why people join as long as they do, it doesn't matter!

All that counts is what we can achieve in this moment and what is at stake.


Look at it from a car crash perspective:

You are on a motorcycle, a bus with managers comes your way.

Is it relevant who has right of way if you collide and you get decapitated ?

Or would it be smarter to brake in any case?

The loss will have a negative impact on us, if we like it or not, and YES it is our collective fault because we would have a 2 year contract that safeguards us until the hedging disaster is hopefully behind us.


Now, the reason I keep bringing this up is very simple:

you guys keep on posting like all is well, just a bit of a bump on the road to final victory!

I say: get real. Have an HONEST look at the average pay of other airlines, have a REALISTIC check of your working conditions/ roster compared to our competitors.

If you guys think this is all a bit of a joke, and if things fall apart you just go on that 300k contract, well think again. These contracts are rare, they have pitfalls, they require you to work much harder and give you zero protection. Everytime you praise other airlines you do cherry picking at best, it appears to me that most of you have no idea what the current packages elsewhere even look like!

95 % of B scalers would face SIGNIFICANT worse conditions elsewhere.I am talking losses of 50% plus! And you guys keep talking about what a c scaler should or shouldn't do, or if he is maybe better of st Emirates or BA. I just don't get it. It's like discussing politics on the deck of the titanic. What is the point???

We need to offer peace now or we will be face the consequences.

I hope the AOA GC and membership is more responsible today, but my hopes are not high.
Sam Ting Wong is online now  

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