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KA248 tail strike

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

KA248 tail strike

Old 3rd Mar 2017, 22:57
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KA248 tail strike

It happened on 3/3 during landing at VDSR.
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Old 4th Mar 2017, 13:06
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Jedi Trainer failing to monitor the FO while showing off to the new joiner in the Jump Seat?
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Old 4th Mar 2017, 14:39
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What a puerile response. The checkie in question is a highly regarded and respected individual. Thus far we do not know how or what happened. I'd like to know how the photos managed to make it onto the www so quickly.
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Old 4th Mar 2017, 14:42
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Kahaha,

One of the most inappropriate posts seen in 20 odd years here; you have all the facts I'm assuming ? Failed PCA maybe ?

Absolutely pathetic on your behalf; as above a highly respected Captain with clearly more integrity and where with all than you could comprehend.

There by the grace of god we all go.

Over and out.

Oz2

Last edited by Australia2; 4th Mar 2017 at 14:54.
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Old 4th Mar 2017, 19:08
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I'd like to know how the photos managed to make it onto the www so quickly.
You're actually surprised that photographs taken on a smartphone made it onto the internet so quickly?
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Old 4th Mar 2017, 21:36
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Highly Regarded and Respected ?

Maybe so but perhaps just as likely he/she had an ultra super duper "Brushwinger" highly experienced MPL pilot with 150 hrs in the RHS.

The CAD and KA management are on board for ALL of this... $$$$$$$$$$$$
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Old 5th Mar 2017, 00:03
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CR.....you just can't help yourself can you? It's staring you in the face every single day or your life and you are utterly blind to it. Fascinating.
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Old 5th Mar 2017, 00:21
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Funny how some airlines's incidents only get reported out of their home base.

I seem to remember a tail strike in HKG on a freighter that somehow does not come up on the database at avherald.

Interesting...
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Old 5th Mar 2017, 00:27
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Kahahaha is failed in life
He currently leads his purile life at HKE and loves to poke fun at his previous employer KA #bitterntwisted
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Old 5th Mar 2017, 10:14
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If a senior TRE , with all his "respect" , wether demanded or commanded, cannot , at the critical moment in a flight, take control and execute a successful missed approach , then I stand by my words.

The plane bounced. If it was in the KA flight simulator on a check, and the crew had the same outcome, the TRE would have a field day berating the crew.

This was reality not simulation. And someone got it wrong. Period.

And maybe the tre took control after the bounce and got it wrong?
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Old 5th Mar 2017, 11:23
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As a very inexperienced and badly trained second officer I bounced at home base with a trainer in the left hand seat.....not knowing what to do I did as I would have on a Cherokee...kept the attitude but didn't apply power as in the outfit we weren't allowed...that was pnf.
The result was two flight controls stuck valve lights and various other warnings as well as a generator or two tripping..
After Sir had ascertained that we could roll to the gate he started laughing...that was my debriefing...in hindsight he obviously didn't know what to do.
The chief steward entered the cockpit and screeched after sir pointed at me and said "we're not flying with you again mate".
We all hid from the passengers as they disembarked.
Ps I've deleted the expeltives as I don't want to upset anyone

Last edited by blind pew; 6th Mar 2017 at 08:12. Reason: Postscript
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Old 5th Mar 2017, 22:01
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If that reply does not hit the nail on the head about the problem I don't think anything will.

I reverted to what I would do in a Cherokee.
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Old 5th Mar 2017, 23:59
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Don't quite understand the last 2 posts. Sloppy an unverified post on PPRuNe of all places does not indicate a problem.
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Old 6th Mar 2017, 02:21
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It's disappointing to see the knife put into a couple of colleagues prior any outcome of an investigation and even then, any pilot with a bigger picture will understand the vulnerability of us all in a similar scenario. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, Airbus and the system washed their hands of any responsibility a little while ago by rescinding our "TOGA 10" training.

Now the Cherokee analogy may make you warm and fuzzy and secure mentally in your own professional insecurities in a similar scenario, however, the first time I flew a 321 I had 8000 short haul hours on Airbus. In typical fashion, we were tankering fuel to the extremities of MLW, it was my first flight on 321 and no KA training briefing or even a word on bug up with the software anomalies and VLS. Anyways, those who know the 321, know ghastly sinking feeling when you pull back stick in the flare and it's like you have completely lost elevator authority- nothing happens. Smashed onto the runway !

I would not have liked to be in the situation the crew found itself. Flare and Recovery Training was on a 320 sim and what is the level of fidelity when compared to a 321? TOGA 10 offering no guarantees and the 321 is a pig in certain landing scenarios.
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Old 6th Mar 2017, 03:55
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This entire thread just makes me sad. I wish our fellow colleagues all the best in what must be a difficult time for all of them.

And to any of you that are ready with the knives out, try not to be a pack of c***s. It only reflects poorly on your character.
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Old 6th Mar 2017, 04:08
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Originally Posted by Gnadenburg View Post

I would not have liked to be in the situation the crew found itself. Flare and Recovery Training was on a 320 sim and what is the level of fidelity when compared to a 321? TOGA 10 offering no guarantees and the 321 is a pig in certain landing scenarios.
The Airbus training policy of only supplying FSTD data for a single aircraft type within each aircraft family (with classroom differences training) does not help operating crews. The A321 is probably the most extreme example.
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Old 6th Mar 2017, 07:57
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You guys are alway quick to go for a kill if some Chinese or Korean or Indon. So this must one of your kind for you guys to be so ever gentle and protective. Hypocrisy at its best. Kahaha just gave you chaps a healthy dose.
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Old 6th Mar 2017, 10:32
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For the love of God Gerago. I haven't insulted an Indon in ages.
This is an unfortunate incident; there for the grace of God goes all of us, and I feel
nothing but sympathy for the poor bastards.
And where has the ethnicity ( or gender ) of either crewmember been alluded to. ?
Nowhere as far as I can see. And had it been it would have been wholly irrelevant.
Don't be a c""t all your life. Take the odd day off. ( Nice qweiloh phrase for you ). And,further, the only worry is, frankly, that you and your prejudices occupy the same bit of airspace as I do occasionally.
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Old 8th Mar 2017, 07:15
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There are perhaps 3 senarios inplay here:
1) The FO bounced the plane and then touchdown with a very nose high , low energy state. Perhaps -15 below Vapp. Tailstrike.

2) The FO bounced and the Captain took over. Then as above , tried to arrest the sink rate with a very nose high pitch . Tailstrike.

3) The Captain took over at some stage and ultimately failed to initiate the missed approach and his none SOP actions caused the subsiquent tail strike .

Of note is the fact the FO was a former long time 330 operator new to the 321. He had recently missed out on command. A reason the commander should have had his thumb on the red take over button?

As mentioned above , the captain is a senior instructor.
As also mentioned , its fairly normal in ka for instructors to bark and holler in simulators. Arrogance prevails from the instructors seat . De briefs dwell on splitting of hairs and minor errors on a sim check .
FOs are scapegoats for the errors of their captains.

When an instructor in KA is responisble , whether they are well respected or otherwise, its only natural for the silent majority to quietly smirk and think , time to swollow your own medicine.

Ultimately this accident will be brushed under the blanket of incidents that KA contiune to get away with. Recent events inc the 2.8G landing, where ultimately a manager flew back from Penang at FL150 , gear down were never really mentioned in the safety review. How much fuel did that cost? Conviently not mentioned .
And then there was the emergency breach of the FTLs last year by the management pilots wife. Result, nothing . She continues to ply her trade and continues to exhibit fuel compromies. Most local FOs will not fly with her.

Will there ever be a true and level playing field in KA for the regular line pilots? Unlikely. Very unlikly.
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Old 8th Mar 2017, 10:50
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Very off topic,although some of the comments warrants [email protected] mr Globocnik, are you by any chance related to this individual? Granted, the name is a very common name, same as lets say john smith, so please forgive my inquisitiveness.

Odilo Lotario Globocnik[2] or Odilo Lothar Ludwig Globocnik,[3] also Germanised as Globotschnig(g)[4] (21 April 1904 31 May 1945), nicknamed Globus,[5] was a prominent Austrian Nazi and later an SS leader. As associate of Adolf Eichmann, he had a leading role in Operation Reinhard, which saw the murder of over one million mostly Polish Jews during the Holocaust in Nazi extermination camps Majdanek, Treblinka, Sobibor and Belzec.[6][7][8] Historian Michael Allen described him as "the vilest individual in the vilest organization ever known".

Im having a problem with the term vilest organization ever known, surely cathay was founded after the war, or am i missing something?
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