DEFO back at CX
Join Date: May 2009
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That would make absolutely no sense whatsoever....... so is the most likely thing.
Currently the A50 conversion requires one sector in the aircraft. DEFO onto the A50 would be at least 20. Why try to do this on an aircraft that they don't want to fly regionally. There have been problems in the past with DEFO straight to RQ. Nice rumour though.
Currently the A50 conversion requires one sector in the aircraft. DEFO onto the A50 would be at least 20. Why try to do this on an aircraft that they don't want to fly regionally. There have been problems in the past with DEFO straight to RQ. Nice rumour though.
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Why does the latest advert for pilots list the 747 and not the 777 fleet? Is the 747 Freighter lifestyle so undesirable that they need to hire directly onto the fleet and not the 777 fleet? I realise that the 777 fleet has great route variety and layovers. Can pilots bid across fleet types (i.e., from 777 to 748F or from Airbus to Boeing) or are they limited to one fleet type? Why would a pilot not want to bid onto the 748F fleet?
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Iver, there is no bidding system for fleet transfer in CX. A number of very senior pilots have quit CX recently simply because they was no way they could ever transfer to the 777.
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Thats because this is a HK Airline. There is no bidding or picking. You are assigned a fleet and stuck on that fleet basically forever unless the company has a need to fill and selects you change types. New hires coming to the 747 , your gunna be stuck on that lifestyle for years if not ever.
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Curtain. It's only after reading such a concise and sadly accurate description of our woeful working conditions does one truly comprehend the tragedy that has become CX. Other than for a minority percentage of the pilots, the job here is one that has turned human beings into mere machines, with no regard for them as people, and certainly no concern whatsoever for their families. And our management sit and wonder 'what is the problem'...? Pathetic.
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And by the way, yes it does matter what fleet you are on. It goes something like this:
777 = work 12-14 days/month (8-10 nights away from home bed), 6 of those 12 not actually doing any flying, in flight for half of the 6 days but sleeping/resting in flight for half of that time (mostly 4 pilots per long haul/half the work), most short haul used for training flights/line checks, always receiving full monthly pay or more, with the slightest additional flying adding up very fast to a lot of extra overtime pay. Usually away from home for max 3 nights in a row (vast majority of long hauls) though a few are 4 nights, with an endless variety of pleasant international cities to enjoy during the layovers, from Zurich to New York, Johannesburg to Amsterdam, Rome to Vancouver (etc.).
747 = work 18-20 days/month (away from home bed, 3/4 of patterns 5-10 days away at a time, 1/4 2-3 days), with half to 2/3 of the month waiting (in often sub-par airport/industrial park hotels) for no pay/credit hours, usually getting maximum 90% of your monthly pay and very rarely 100% or any overtime (both reduce provident fund), despite being away from home 50-80% more than the vast majority of 777 pilots, mostly 2-pilot flights (no rest) with 1-2 sectors mostly through the night, and never more than 1/3 rest in the 9.5-12 hour trans-Pacific flights even though often longer than 777 flights with 1/2 the rest, with a roster that is always in flux and zero compensation for changes/extra days away from home/cancellation of guaranteed days off or leave due to frequent changes and late returns home (no concern whatsover for your family's plans/holidays/weddings/birthdays/events/flight tickets/etc. that you will miss due to the 100% free option, at the company's discretion, of making you work indefinitely once you are on a trip away from home). Also, the vast majority of the company doesn't know and doesn't care that you exist, and those that do will purposefully treat you as a second-class employee who does not deserve any respect. 75-80% layovers are too short to enjoy much in any city, other than a meal near the hotel, with up to 50% of layover time spent in Anchorage (effectively on free reserve to cover the frequent schedule changes).
Airbus (A330/340/350) = Mostly 20-22 days/month of work (but will slowly improve as A350 growth slowly occurs), vast majority 1-2 night away from home at a time, with half that waiting (too often in sub-par airport/industrial park hotels) for no pay/credit hours/ usually getting maximum 90% of your monthly pay and very rarely 100% or any overtime (both reduce provident fund), despite working 80-90% more days than the vast majority of 777 pilots, mostly 2-pilot flights (no rest) with 1-2 sectors half all the way through the night but often alternating with days/nights at work, exacerbating the fatigue and health issues, many 5 to 10 hour red-eye flights with just a short break in a J-class seat, and very few long haul flights with same in-flight rest as 777. Majority of layovers are minimum or near-minimum rest periods with little to no time to do anything outside the hotel.
Well, not the whole story, but it's something like that.
And this is why the DEFO hiring is onto the 330 and 747 and not onto the 777: to avoid a chaotic revolution by those already trapped on lousy rosters/lifestyles/pay/conditions with no way out.
777 = work 12-14 days/month (8-10 nights away from home bed), 6 of those 12 not actually doing any flying, in flight for half of the 6 days but sleeping/resting in flight for half of that time (mostly 4 pilots per long haul/half the work), most short haul used for training flights/line checks, always receiving full monthly pay or more, with the slightest additional flying adding up very fast to a lot of extra overtime pay. Usually away from home for max 3 nights in a row (vast majority of long hauls) though a few are 4 nights, with an endless variety of pleasant international cities to enjoy during the layovers, from Zurich to New York, Johannesburg to Amsterdam, Rome to Vancouver (etc.).
747 = work 18-20 days/month (away from home bed, 3/4 of patterns 5-10 days away at a time, 1/4 2-3 days), with half to 2/3 of the month waiting (in often sub-par airport/industrial park hotels) for no pay/credit hours, usually getting maximum 90% of your monthly pay and very rarely 100% or any overtime (both reduce provident fund), despite being away from home 50-80% more than the vast majority of 777 pilots, mostly 2-pilot flights (no rest) with 1-2 sectors mostly through the night, and never more than 1/3 rest in the 9.5-12 hour trans-Pacific flights even though often longer than 777 flights with 1/2 the rest, with a roster that is always in flux and zero compensation for changes/extra days away from home/cancellation of guaranteed days off or leave due to frequent changes and late returns home (no concern whatsover for your family's plans/holidays/weddings/birthdays/events/flight tickets/etc. that you will miss due to the 100% free option, at the company's discretion, of making you work indefinitely once you are on a trip away from home). Also, the vast majority of the company doesn't know and doesn't care that you exist, and those that do will purposefully treat you as a second-class employee who does not deserve any respect. 75-80% layovers are too short to enjoy much in any city, other than a meal near the hotel, with up to 50% of layover time spent in Anchorage (effectively on free reserve to cover the frequent schedule changes).
Airbus (A330/340/350) = Mostly 20-22 days/month of work (but will slowly improve as A350 growth slowly occurs), vast majority 1-2 night away from home at a time, with half that waiting (too often in sub-par airport/industrial park hotels) for no pay/credit hours/ usually getting maximum 90% of your monthly pay and very rarely 100% or any overtime (both reduce provident fund), despite working 80-90% more days than the vast majority of 777 pilots, mostly 2-pilot flights (no rest) with 1-2 sectors half all the way through the night but often alternating with days/nights at work, exacerbating the fatigue and health issues, many 5 to 10 hour red-eye flights with just a short break in a J-class seat, and very few long haul flights with same in-flight rest as 777. Majority of layovers are minimum or near-minimum rest periods with little to no time to do anything outside the hotel.
Well, not the whole story, but it's something like that.
And this is why the DEFO hiring is onto the 330 and 747 and not onto the 777: to avoid a chaotic revolution by those already trapped on lousy rosters/lifestyles/pay/conditions with no way out.
Kudos v. F'all to do with it.
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And by the way, yes it does matter what fleet you are on. It goes something like this:
777 = work 12-14 days/month (8-10 nights away from home bed), 6 of those 12 not actually doing any flying, in flight for half of the 6 days but sleeping/resting in flight for half of that time (mostly 4 pilots per long haul/half the work), most short haul used for training flights/line checks, always receiving full monthly pay or more, with the slightest additional flying adding up very fast to a lot of extra overtime pay. Usually away from home for max 3 nights in a row (vast majority of long hauls) though a few are 4 nights, with an endless variety of pleasant international cities to enjoy during the layovers, from Zurich to New York, Johannesburg to Amsterdam, Rome to Vancouver (etc.).
747 = work 18-20 days/month (away from home bed, 3/4 of patterns 5-10 days away at a time, 1/4 2-3 days), with half to 2/3 of the month waiting (in often sub-par airport/industrial park hotels) for no pay/credit hours, usually getting maximum 90% of your monthly pay and very rarely 100% or any overtime (both reduce provident fund), despite being away from home 50-80% more than the vast majority of 777 pilots, mostly 2-pilot flights (no rest) with 1-2 sectors mostly through the night, and never more than 1/3 rest in the 9.5-12 hour trans-Pacific flights even though often longer than 777 flights with 1/2 the rest, with a roster that is always in flux and zero compensation for changes/extra days away from home/cancellation of guaranteed days off or leave due to frequent changes and late returns home (no concern whatsover for your family's plans/holidays/weddings/birthdays/events/flight tickets/etc. that you will miss due to the 100% free option, at the company's discretion, of making you work indefinitely once you are on a trip away from home). Also, the vast majority of the company doesn't know and doesn't care that you exist, and those that do will purposefully treat you as a second-class employee who does not deserve any respect. 75-80% layovers are too short to enjoy much in any city, other than a meal near the hotel, with up to 50% of layover time spent in Anchorage (effectively on free reserve to cover the frequent schedule changes).
Airbus (A330/340/350) = Mostly 20-22 days/month of work (but will slowly improve as A350 growth slowly occurs), vast majority 1-2 night away from home at a time, with half that waiting (too often in sub-par airport/industrial park hotels) for no pay/credit hours/ usually getting maximum 90% of your monthly pay and very rarely 100% or any overtime (both reduce provident fund), despite working 80-90% more days than the vast majority of 777 pilots, mostly 2-pilot flights (no rest) with 1-2 sectors half all the way through the night but often alternating with days/nights at work, exacerbating the fatigue and health issues, many 5 to 10 hour red-eye flights with just a short break in a J-class seat, and very few long haul flights with same in-flight rest as 777. Majority of layovers are minimum or near-minimum rest periods with little to no time to do anything outside the hotel.
Well, not the whole story, but it's something like that.
And this is why the DEFO hiring is onto the 330 and 747 and not onto the 777: to avoid a chaotic revolution by those already trapped on lousy rosters/lifestyles/pay/conditions with no way out.
777 = work 12-14 days/month (8-10 nights away from home bed), 6 of those 12 not actually doing any flying, in flight for half of the 6 days but sleeping/resting in flight for half of that time (mostly 4 pilots per long haul/half the work), most short haul used for training flights/line checks, always receiving full monthly pay or more, with the slightest additional flying adding up very fast to a lot of extra overtime pay. Usually away from home for max 3 nights in a row (vast majority of long hauls) though a few are 4 nights, with an endless variety of pleasant international cities to enjoy during the layovers, from Zurich to New York, Johannesburg to Amsterdam, Rome to Vancouver (etc.).
747 = work 18-20 days/month (away from home bed, 3/4 of patterns 5-10 days away at a time, 1/4 2-3 days), with half to 2/3 of the month waiting (in often sub-par airport/industrial park hotels) for no pay/credit hours, usually getting maximum 90% of your monthly pay and very rarely 100% or any overtime (both reduce provident fund), despite being away from home 50-80% more than the vast majority of 777 pilots, mostly 2-pilot flights (no rest) with 1-2 sectors mostly through the night, and never more than 1/3 rest in the 9.5-12 hour trans-Pacific flights even though often longer than 777 flights with 1/2 the rest, with a roster that is always in flux and zero compensation for changes/extra days away from home/cancellation of guaranteed days off or leave due to frequent changes and late returns home (no concern whatsover for your family's plans/holidays/weddings/birthdays/events/flight tickets/etc. that you will miss due to the 100% free option, at the company's discretion, of making you work indefinitely once you are on a trip away from home). Also, the vast majority of the company doesn't know and doesn't care that you exist, and those that do will purposefully treat you as a second-class employee who does not deserve any respect. 75-80% layovers are too short to enjoy much in any city, other than a meal near the hotel, with up to 50% of layover time spent in Anchorage (effectively on free reserve to cover the frequent schedule changes).
Airbus (A330/340/350) = Mostly 20-22 days/month of work (but will slowly improve as A350 growth slowly occurs), vast majority 1-2 night away from home at a time, with half that waiting (too often in sub-par airport/industrial park hotels) for no pay/credit hours/ usually getting maximum 90% of your monthly pay and very rarely 100% or any overtime (both reduce provident fund), despite working 80-90% more days than the vast majority of 777 pilots, mostly 2-pilot flights (no rest) with 1-2 sectors half all the way through the night but often alternating with days/nights at work, exacerbating the fatigue and health issues, many 5 to 10 hour red-eye flights with just a short break in a J-class seat, and very few long haul flights with same in-flight rest as 777. Majority of layovers are minimum or near-minimum rest periods with little to no time to do anything outside the hotel.
Well, not the whole story, but it's something like that.
And this is why the DEFO hiring is onto the 330 and 747 and not onto the 777: to avoid a chaotic revolution by those already trapped on lousy rosters/lifestyles/pay/conditions with no way out.
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I am small and pathetic but you are full of sh$t
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This thread is hilarious. People here saying go to EK. In EK thread everyone says you are nuts to join EK. MAKE UP YOUR MIND.
My experience has been that almost all pilots make a (career) decision with the knowledge that from all they've seen, read and heard from trusted sources that it is the right and best LONG TERM decision. The words "long term" are key words. Those without the same experience (maturity or industrial) will do so based on pure self, short term interest.
But when the contract you were offered & mutually signed is laughed at by management, the union you trust to protect your rights and contractual terms both now and in the future is more of a self serving department for the elected committees, your lifestyle is not what the agreed terms and conditions were, then you have a right to be angry and upset.
It's the expats who come to a new country, a new company who whine loudly about getting exactly what they asked for: the type who would still do so if the free beer was chilled to 9.5 deg and not 10 deg. So you go to EK and find out there's no union permitted, it's 49 deg in the shade for 4 months of the year, locals get fast tracked ahead of you, your FDTL's are an extreme version of whipped till nearly dead, Shariah Law.... Or you go to China / SE Asia and find out there's a thing called a rainy season, or pollution, or you're expected to pay a bribe for your promotion, or they're smoking in the cockpit so much so it's a CAT IIIB approach to find your control seat from the cockpit door. Or the Sub Continent, or the US, or Europe, etc, etc.
Those who complain full into 2 categories in my opinion:
1) those who have a right to because they did their due diligence and find their contractual terms treated with contempt and degenerating at the hands of greedy, or corrupt, or incompetent management, or;
2) those who don't have a right to complain as they didn't do any proper research and feel hard done by because the sunshine and rainbows from the pamphlet in no way represents reality. The unicorn was bludgeoned by the new MBA hero in the office. All the while the reality was there for any fool to see had they chosen to look, ;et alone listen.
EK or CX or UA or ANZ or BA or VA or anyone else: what works for one doesn't necessarily work for the other. But don't complain about getting what you asked for. And defend against those who take from you what is agreed to and is legally yours.
Last edited by ChinaBeached; 11th Oct 2016 at 10:50.
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Point of Order Mr Chairman
earn a cool 20-60k HKD more per month
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That suggested 777 roster has obviously never been anywhere near London, truly awful. Commuting base no longer, 9 days at home a month, people are taking HK bases because they get more time at home...go figure...