The open threat from Ms. Thompson the Director of Flight Operations
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I think you chaps are being absolutely howwid!! Don't you know the poverty stricken Swine Family is 250 million quid down on last year according to today's Sunday Times Rich list....
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So where does AT go from here? Clearly the date limit is jus a rouse. But I'm puzzled as any of the mentioned ideas have a significant lead time to implement.
1. Freighter fleet, -400F to AHK, -8F wet leased out. Releases HK based crew but what of the based Fr8 pilots?
2. More 330s to KA, easier to sort out and much less damaging to the group overall.
3. Defer the arr of the 350, costly and bad for business.
4. Outsource some training, easy short term solution.
5. DEC on bases to operate the Fr8er, been done b4, likely to be done again.
6. Agree the RPs being back in COS and negotiate HKPA, TB lifted back to almost normal, except CC is the new norm. Unlikely as a loss of face is bad and would need to be spun quite well.
7. All FR8 flying to be operated by based crew, openings in NAM for FO and CN, any positions not filled would be open to DE.
PS Headland Hotel was christened the Brushwing Barracks when opened, management advised the FEs involved not to be so childish. The pendulum has swung.
So any other ideas what may be in store after the 31/05/2016?
1. Freighter fleet, -400F to AHK, -8F wet leased out. Releases HK based crew but what of the based Fr8 pilots?
2. More 330s to KA, easier to sort out and much less damaging to the group overall.
3. Defer the arr of the 350, costly and bad for business.
4. Outsource some training, easy short term solution.
5. DEC on bases to operate the Fr8er, been done b4, likely to be done again.
6. Agree the RPs being back in COS and negotiate HKPA, TB lifted back to almost normal, except CC is the new norm. Unlikely as a loss of face is bad and would need to be spun quite well.
7. All FR8 flying to be operated by based crew, openings in NAM for FO and CN, any positions not filled would be open to DE.
PS Headland Hotel was christened the Brushwing Barracks when opened, management advised the FEs involved not to be so childish. The pendulum has swung.
So any other ideas what may be in store after the 31/05/2016?
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The A350s will not be deferred. It will be less expensive to accept the A350s on schedule, transfer as many A330s to KA as they can accommodate and park the excess A330s we do not have the crew to operate.
Outsource Airbus training to KA is a near term fix with minimal financial downside. The regrettable long term reality is this starts the migration toward a more integrated CX KA operation.
Placing RP back in our COS cost the company nothing. They will rationalize it as the give-n-take of negotiations. But I can not imagine the company accepting RP07. Wherever we end up the company will view it as their win. RP16 in the COS?
Outsource Airbus training to KA is a near term fix with minimal financial downside. The regrettable long term reality is this starts the migration toward a more integrated CX KA operation.
Placing RP back in our COS cost the company nothing. They will rationalize it as the give-n-take of negotiations. But I can not imagine the company accepting RP07. Wherever we end up the company will view it as their win. RP16 in the COS?
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The FUB,
I agree with with what you wrote and can I add further to that;
1. The full A350 order cancelled for CX, and the whole feet going to CX Dragon as well as some A330.
2. 4 747 production F's going back to Boeing, 3 747 PAX retired this year in Sept/Oct and some if not most of the A340 gone within the next 12-18 months max. On top of that some of the older 777 will be retired soon.
3. Direct entry FO and CN positions available on bases in Australia, Europe and NA. HKG based crew not eligible to bid for it.
Following the above, immediately the crewing issue is solved, and CX expansion is frozen, in fact we would shrink a bit if anything. Contract compliance and Training ban is obsolete as there would be very little upgrade training, only regulatory annual line checks and PC's. Of course we will be blamed for killing the CX expansion as the pilots in CX don't have the goodwill to make the airline grow let alone train other people coming on board.
Further airline expansion for Swire comes from growing CX Dragon into a global airline, not just an Asian carrier.
On top of that, CX has reached a limit of 80 odd flights per week into Australia, there are no more additional slots, and this is a great way for Swire to expand revenue and business into Australia under a different AOC.
Future upgrades for SOs and FOs will be to go onto a new contract and transfer into CX Dragon, similar to what Qantas did with their crew offering them upgrades on a new contract by going into Jetstar.
CX once bought Dragon and shrunk them in the process to align them with CX operations. Well, the tide has turned 10 years later, CX will be shrunk to align with the growth of CX Dragon, either way Swire airlines operation continues to grow and expand into Asia and beyond.
I hope I am wrong, but like somebody once told me, never say never!
Enjoy the ride lads
I agree with with what you wrote and can I add further to that;
1. The full A350 order cancelled for CX, and the whole feet going to CX Dragon as well as some A330.
2. 4 747 production F's going back to Boeing, 3 747 PAX retired this year in Sept/Oct and some if not most of the A340 gone within the next 12-18 months max. On top of that some of the older 777 will be retired soon.
3. Direct entry FO and CN positions available on bases in Australia, Europe and NA. HKG based crew not eligible to bid for it.
Following the above, immediately the crewing issue is solved, and CX expansion is frozen, in fact we would shrink a bit if anything. Contract compliance and Training ban is obsolete as there would be very little upgrade training, only regulatory annual line checks and PC's. Of course we will be blamed for killing the CX expansion as the pilots in CX don't have the goodwill to make the airline grow let alone train other people coming on board.
Further airline expansion for Swire comes from growing CX Dragon into a global airline, not just an Asian carrier.
On top of that, CX has reached a limit of 80 odd flights per week into Australia, there are no more additional slots, and this is a great way for Swire to expand revenue and business into Australia under a different AOC.
Future upgrades for SOs and FOs will be to go onto a new contract and transfer into CX Dragon, similar to what Qantas did with their crew offering them upgrades on a new contract by going into Jetstar.
CX once bought Dragon and shrunk them in the process to align them with CX operations. Well, the tide has turned 10 years later, CX will be shrunk to align with the growth of CX Dragon, either way Swire airlines operation continues to grow and expand into Asia and beyond.
I hope I am wrong, but like somebody once told me, never say never!
Enjoy the ride lads
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So all of the company options point to us losing upgrades? Expansion may continue but HK pilots will not be a part of it, they will remain frozen in their current rank? Unless there is integration of the flying and seniority lists maybe? Own goal? Remember when the going got tough China Southern flew CX sectors?
I realise that some of you are worried about the path forward but can we please put a stop the wild baseless speculation:
1. Traffic rights are tied to the AOC. As such Dragon cannot fly / take over the long haul flying to your beloved LAX/YVR/LHR. Given this, the commands muted in the pipeline stay at CX.
2. Dragon does not have the capability to ramp up and operate the huge network in anywhere close to the near term.
3. Dragon trainers are struggling to do their own in house training so have little capability to do a major portion of ours. The two JFO upgrades muted are symbolic only and designed to put the wind up you. Clearly this is working but those of you who are hysterically reacting to this proposal are only doing the company's bidding !
4. The freighter fleet (yes with only 2 pax 747's then you may as well call it such) contributes on average 30 % of the revenue of the airline. Do you really think that the DFO would have gone to the big boys and said "hey, I have an idea ! Let's wet lease out freighters and all their contracts to a third party". If an employee of mine suggested such I would give them their notice and tell them to start interviewing their replacement. Further, were I crazy enough to entertain this "stoopid" idea:
(I) where would I get the qualified crews from? (China Southern are not paying big bucks now to garner the best of the best, they are doing so because there is a shortage of supply)
(Ii) who is going to train them (we are going around in circles here)
(Iii) See above, traffic rights are tied to the Airlines AOC. Do you honestly thing the FAA are going to say no problemo to some new outfit operating CX blah blah to Kennedy without asking questions, not to mention every other European state doing the same?
Miss DFO was in the fleet offices canvassing the the desk warmers 2 weeks back asking what needed to be done to get the ball moving. No doubt they are pissed off that the pilot body has not capitulated and have decided something else is needed to break the impasse but anyone thinking it will be revolutionary is clearly over reacting which coincidently is exactly what she wants you to do.
For those of you who are new to the game (no disrespect meant) then have a chat to some of the old timers and air your concerns. I am sure they will be put to bed with a quiet word.
Most importantly keep your powder dry.
DO NOT OVER REACT for this is precisely what they want.
1. Traffic rights are tied to the AOC. As such Dragon cannot fly / take over the long haul flying to your beloved LAX/YVR/LHR. Given this, the commands muted in the pipeline stay at CX.
2. Dragon does not have the capability to ramp up and operate the huge network in anywhere close to the near term.
3. Dragon trainers are struggling to do their own in house training so have little capability to do a major portion of ours. The two JFO upgrades muted are symbolic only and designed to put the wind up you. Clearly this is working but those of you who are hysterically reacting to this proposal are only doing the company's bidding !
4. The freighter fleet (yes with only 2 pax 747's then you may as well call it such) contributes on average 30 % of the revenue of the airline. Do you really think that the DFO would have gone to the big boys and said "hey, I have an idea ! Let's wet lease out freighters and all their contracts to a third party". If an employee of mine suggested such I would give them their notice and tell them to start interviewing their replacement. Further, were I crazy enough to entertain this "stoopid" idea:
(I) where would I get the qualified crews from? (China Southern are not paying big bucks now to garner the best of the best, they are doing so because there is a shortage of supply)
(Ii) who is going to train them (we are going around in circles here)
(Iii) See above, traffic rights are tied to the Airlines AOC. Do you honestly thing the FAA are going to say no problemo to some new outfit operating CX blah blah to Kennedy without asking questions, not to mention every other European state doing the same?
Miss DFO was in the fleet offices canvassing the the desk warmers 2 weeks back asking what needed to be done to get the ball moving. No doubt they are pissed off that the pilot body has not capitulated and have decided something else is needed to break the impasse but anyone thinking it will be revolutionary is clearly over reacting which coincidently is exactly what she wants you to do.
For those of you who are new to the game (no disrespect meant) then have a chat to some of the old timers and air your concerns. I am sure they will be put to bed with a quiet word.
Most importantly keep your powder dry.
DO NOT OVER REACT for this is precisely what they want.
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Sadly history repeats itself and people actually again think that a change of DFO will change everything, that this person isn't just doing their job.
Wonder how many will beat their chests and then quit the union just like in 2001, after the inevitable carnage results in the AOA having to push membership fees up to cover costs.
Wonder how many will beat their chests and then quit the union just like in 2001, after the inevitable carnage results in the AOA having to push membership fees up to cover costs.
Anotherday, what "inevitable carnage"?
Try and cut the bullsh1t scaremongering for:
1. you are doing the company's bidding in doing such
2. There is nothing factual in what you have written
Try and cut the bullsh1t scaremongering for:
1. you are doing the company's bidding in doing such
2. There is nothing factual in what you have written
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The FUB and catpac are probably about right.
Rice Power - the ones who shout the loudest are usually the ones to quit first. Many of the senior captains quit when the subs went to HK$5000. Always had a good reason though.
And when the insulting offer came to the 49ers for a reinstatement interview, despite 90% of the 49ers rejecting it when polled beforehand (minus the two deceased -directly connected), we the AOA voted to abandon the financial and legal support ( two voting sessions needed - as manipulated by the AOA President).
These facts above are the miserable truth. Don't expect the cavalry to ride to the rescue if you are caught out.
Rice Power - the ones who shout the loudest are usually the ones to quit first. Many of the senior captains quit when the subs went to HK$5000. Always had a good reason though.
And when the insulting offer came to the 49ers for a reinstatement interview, despite 90% of the 49ers rejecting it when polled beforehand (minus the two deceased -directly connected), we the AOA voted to abandon the financial and legal support ( two voting sessions needed - as manipulated by the AOA President).
These facts above are the miserable truth. Don't expect the cavalry to ride to the rescue if you are caught out.
Valhalla, I don't live in the past.
Should you choose to do so then that is your business but I fail to see the relevance to anything you have stated other than to scaremonger and I have respectfully asked that those commenting think twice before doing the company's bidding.
Should you choose to do so then that is your business but I fail to see the relevance to anything you have stated other than to scaremonger and I have respectfully asked that those commenting think twice before doing the company's bidding.
The noose tightens because the A350's are coming and soon. When they arrive and are parked because the DFO has failed to organise her department properly, she's going to have some explaining to do over on the Island. The accountants are going to go nuts and that's just the start of it. The onus is definitely on the DFO to sort this out and QUICKLY.
All the pilots have to do is to fulfil their contract obligations and NOTHING ELSE. Yes - too bloody right it's their train set so let them fix it.
Popcorn please…………….
All the pilots have to do is to fulfil their contract obligations and NOTHING ELSE. Yes - too bloody right it's their train set so let them fix it.
Popcorn please…………….
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Bring on the wild speculation / rumors and then intelligently debunk them ourselves (without attacking each other, remember who the enemy is), perhaps then we may actually have a semblance of what "may" be expected.
As mentioned direct entry won't fix it, who will train them? It'll be even slower than now.
It should also settle down any CX hyped scare mongering.
As mentioned direct entry won't fix it, who will train them? It'll be even slower than now.
It should also settle down any CX hyped scare mongering.
Dragon is not the savior they have their own issues keeping pace...NOPE ..I'm guessing it's more like the DT era of a "sign or be fired" contract with 90+ credit hours and 1000/year. It's all they know and when in a tight spot hide their inadequate planning by screwing staff.They were warned by training staff years ago this would happen with the A350 and it's worse than forecast. They have decades of history of abusing staff for all to see if you bother to look. Training is totally voluntary as is flying your contract. How is this construed as industrial action at all?? If anything THEY are the contract busters with ripping up rostering practices, refusing or cancelling annual leave, abusing reserve along with the ridiculous FREE EXB,O,A, and 30 reserve days a year..WHO puts up with that **** in this day and age??
We Do that's who..and why? Because we let it happen.
So many staff now just do not give a crap ...it's just a job..time in exchange for money. They really need to grasp that we have become what they always have been.
Bring it on.
We Do that's who..and why? Because we let it happen.
So many staff now just do not give a crap ...it's just a job..time in exchange for money. They really need to grasp that we have become what they always have been.
Bring it on.