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HKPA Negotiations

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

HKPA Negotiations

Old 20th Dec 2015, 08:02
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: HK
Posts: 123
HKPA Negotiations

The company refused to come to the table with a reasonable compromise on HKPA. We then see the proposal from the GC. I was a little surprised to see it so low... and the company wouldn't even agree to that or near it!

If that doesn't sound alarm bells to those on HKPA, then nothing will, and the rhetoric is evident that expat housing is severely under threat in the near future.

AT has been in charge since August...what has been fixed? Nothing.

RP still not resolved and unlikely to be so.
Rostering not resolved
HKPA unresolved
SHP unresolved
Leave system utterly useless
Numerous other issues...

And now Katpiss moves from CP Airbus to GMF - another unmitigated disaster waiting. His people skills were shit as CP imagine the mayhem he will create as GMF.

Remember though - it's all our fault. Our fault pilots get failed on courses, our fault they haven't hired enough pilots, our fault there are not enough base slots, our fault for joining CX, our fault for not going that extra mile, our fault our contracts are not honoured.

Any more Sim Instructor slots?
A3301FD is offline  
Old 20th Dec 2015, 11:07
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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Expat housing under threat? Hmm, in my case it only improves my 'housing'. How?, Because if they mess with me and my wife's situation here in HK, we'll be off to our much bigger, better, cleaner and happier house back in leafy England. They can take their STC job and shove it the next day. Just give me a reason Anna.
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Old 20th Dec 2015, 11:47
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Join Date: Dec 2010
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RP still not resolved and unlikely to be so.
Rostering not resolved
HKPA unresolved
SHP unresolved
Leave system utterly useless
You have it the wrong way round.

What you see as issues are actually solutions to them.
She was brought to fix the situation, but she didn't say who she was going to fix it for...
Status quo benefits them, not us.


Yonosoy Marinero is offline  
Old 20th Dec 2015, 11:56
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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No, don't agree with that. The operation is now barely surviving in crisis mode. Daily cancellations, last minute crew changes (sometimes 3 out of 4 on a single flight). Talk to a crew controller and tell me that management have things 'just as they like'. CC is slowly strangling them. The final collapse will come suddenly. This management has failed, and the lost revenue, record sickness rates and upset frequent fliers (and of those there are growing multitudes) will be the tools that bring this craven lot down. Keep your own peer group of friends and colleagues on track, keep applying CC and don't doubt the outcome. Anna has '0' credibility with us, and is increasingly seen as a failure by those who appointed her. Time is always on our side, so don't despair. We WILL win this battle if we remain steadfast and committed.
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Old 20th Dec 2015, 12:49
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Nuclear Dust City
Posts: 131
Originally Posted by Air Profit View Post
Because if they mess with me and my wife's situation here in HK, we'll be off to our much bigger, better, cleaner and happier house back in leafy England.
Originally Posted by Air Profit View Post
We WILL win this battle if we remain steadfast and committed.
So why are you still here? Is that all your happiness and health is worth to you? Just remind me over all these years exactly which battle has been won by this pathetic group of excellency? There's always at least one that is willing to step over dead bodies for a few extra bucks to sponsor his Wan Chai adventures. And mind telling us how you, by hanging onto your training position, would help the cause? Oh yeah, so you make could make that extra 15% now and be able to pull the pin earlier if it goes south for you? Until we see a mass resignation from our trainers, there's absolutely no grounds for you guys to tell people what to do outside of what's in the CX training syllabus.
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Old 20th Dec 2015, 12:57
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Join Date: Dec 2010
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This management has failed, and the lost revenue, record sickness rates and upset frequent fliers
I wish I could believe that. In fact, I used to.

But we are evidently facing a company which would rather everybody they employ was pissed out of their mind rather than spend a dime on them.
It's a management style which might or might not make any financial sense, but that is beyond the point.

Maximum oppression of the workforce to within a hair of breaking the whole business is the only thing they know.
Trying to change them would be like trying to teach my 85 year-old grand mother to not be racist; You can try but it won't work.
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Old 20th Dec 2015, 13:40
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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Child Labour. Where in my comment was I 'telling' anyone what to do? I was encouraging people to stick to CC. Or are you aware of another directive from the AOA that i'm not familiar with? I do my job to the letter (as in 'CC'). So far, CX has fulfilled the contract that i'm on. If and when they renege, then I will enact a personal decision to leave. Why I have not left as of yet is really none of your business, and my perspective on my own 'health and wealth' is certainly not. Suffice to say that I have been a loyal AOA member for well over 20 years. I do my part....you?. The enemy is both the company's venal, incompetent and misguided management style, and those members who are deliberately flaunting the tenants of CC. When and if the AOA decides that T and C positions are against association policy, or that the job we do is in legal jeopardy, I will leave the next day....as in the case of CX violating my contract and conditions of service. Focus your attention on those who really need it.

Last edited by Air Profit; 21st Dec 2015 at 04:04.
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Old 21st Dec 2015, 01:17
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Join Date: Apr 2002
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AT is a student of the George Burns School of Management.

"You've got to be honest"

"If you can fake that, you've got it made".
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Old 21st Dec 2015, 03:56
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Yea, I read that online a couple of days ago also HFX. Very original....and very helpful. The fact you would include the word 'management' in your comment at least hints at the fact you know where the real problem lies. A bit sad that you couldn't find the time to comment on their great contribution to your career happiness. Unless of course you think the real 'evil' in the company are the entire C and T department?
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Old 21st Dec 2015, 05:00
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 65
Posts: 686
AP

I was referring to AT...and btw, I agree that the wheels are falling off and that CC is working.

Rostering cannot recover from the current stress levels without either a 20% increase in qualified crew or a concerted effort to regain goodwill. I think we all know which is achievable and which is not.

By end Q1 of 2016 our masters will be only able to operate 85% of the current schedule.

Patience will be your friend. Have a good Xmas.

Here's to 2016...the year of clearing the leave backlog.

Last edited by VR-HFX; 21st Dec 2015 at 09:06.
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Old 21st Dec 2015, 10:15
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Join Date: Jun 2008
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Considering my leave was rejected for the entirety of 2016 due to "low staffing levels" (oh and they were all non consiquential +8 blocks) and the current round of mud slinging emails, id say something is working.
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Old 21st Dec 2015, 10:40
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Paradise
Posts: 181
Game on

"We won't be making any changes to the current HKPA levels".

I sense a disturbance in the Force. It's as if a thousand HKPA recipients suddenly cried out and thought "@#$% you CX".
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Old 21st Dec 2015, 11:23
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Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Australia
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....we will not be making any changes to the current HKPA levels. I can appreciate that this may be news that many HKPA recipients find disappointing. From the company’s point of view, we know you're trapped in a seniority system, you junior girls/guys have F#€k all skills or hours and are worthless, so you need us more than we need you!

Once you have senior time under your belt and are valuable, you won't leave to join the bottom of a new seniority list because you feel important to be labelled a captain yet paid SFA for the responsibility, and once again you need us more than we need you. ����

Your moral high ground is a running joke when we managers converse at the club with a G&T every Friday. So please keep coming to work fatigued and feel proud how you got the job done after we completely screwed your roster & lifestyle for the umpteenth time. Oh and please keep writting those scary letters oooh we're shsnking in our boots. We'll take away expat terms like we've dwindled away everything else. Looking forward to all the bravado!dumbasses

Join CX, the most advanced wide body airline in the world 😜😜😜

Last edited by Avinthenews; 21st Dec 2015 at 11:41.
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Old 21st Dec 2015, 11:50
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Hong kong
Posts: 33
Rant

This MAY be disappointing for MANY hkpa recipients......

Like the deal you offered MAY be shit and MANY of us can't raise a family on it.....

The little perspective these people have is so crazy. They are sitting on their thrones gorging themselves(100000+++housing) throwing their crumbs on the floor for us and are surprised when we turn their shit down.

I would love for them to all come onto the HKPA. Try living on what they've called "reasonable". If it's good for the goose....most hypercritical people I've ever dealt with.

Rant over.

Merry Christmas to all the Pilots
Management.....don't you have some hedging to do?
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Old 21st Dec 2015, 12:07
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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haha...ok VHX...I deserved the ridicule for that faux pas. I need to change my username....AP/AT...too close for comfort. Merry Christmas.
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Old 21st Dec 2015, 18:40
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: az
Posts: 230
I've heard there is a significant emphasis being made on settling all contractual issues such as HKPA, RP's, etc... before the profit is announced this year. It will be embarrassingly high, even given the hedge loss (which ironically is a gain for another related company), and the bosses in Pacific place do not want whiners who want more than their fair share.... even though they will be taking well more than theirs...... hypocritical?

You've gotten this far with the union negotiating, and support from the masses. Now is not the time to stop and give in to mediocrity.
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Old 21st Dec 2015, 20:25
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: up here, everyone looks like ants!
Posts: 955
What the board, AT, DP and London are all thinking...


Last edited by Cpt. Underpants; 21st Dec 2015 at 21:11.
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Old 21st Dec 2015, 23:42
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 2
AvMed would happily admit that you need to be fit in body and mind to aviate…..after that last missive from GMA, it might be a good time to ask yourself if you are too fed up or pissed off to aviate and take a few days off!
Hugo Peroni the IV is offline  
Old 22nd Dec 2015, 02:39
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Not in a Bus
Posts: 325
As long as guys keep falling over themselves to get into CX on C scale, there will be no improvement to HKPA
Guys are ALWAYS gonna join, look outside and add youthful optimism, it IS always gonna happen. BUT.... if/when the same guys take away 5 years of training effort and investment into our potential future Captains and give it to XYZ airline, that may be a catalyst for change - - - - May - - - - if it actually happens.
White None is offline  
Old 22nd Dec 2015, 11:02
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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Posts: 325
Spiralling down to the low moral ground - no thanks.
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