AT. Why the pretense?
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AT. Why the pretense?
Dear Anna,
I usually post on the AOA forums, but considering the totalitarian nature of the present regime, I will do so here. Thank you for so quickly stripping away the facade of cooperation and understanding that you originally presented us with. At least now we can deal with you on the basis of your true character (!). No other first world airline would so gratuitously disregard the overwhelming opposition to your dismissal of the RP's. Those RP's were bought and paid for by the efforts and sacrifices of many years of professional dedication and effort. As pilots, we gave up specific things to purchase the RP's. We now expect them to be immediately returned to us. Further, you stand in complete disregard of 50 years of safety developments also bought and paid for with the lives of many of our colleagues throughout modern first world aviation experience. You will be held to account. For now, and speaking solely for myself, you can be assured that I will do all I individually can to resist and foil your misguided, self-centered and misinformed plans. The rest of my colleagues can make their own mind up. I see you for exactly who and what you are. It's not a pleasant sight.
I usually post on the AOA forums, but considering the totalitarian nature of the present regime, I will do so here. Thank you for so quickly stripping away the facade of cooperation and understanding that you originally presented us with. At least now we can deal with you on the basis of your true character (!). No other first world airline would so gratuitously disregard the overwhelming opposition to your dismissal of the RP's. Those RP's were bought and paid for by the efforts and sacrifices of many years of professional dedication and effort. As pilots, we gave up specific things to purchase the RP's. We now expect them to be immediately returned to us. Further, you stand in complete disregard of 50 years of safety developments also bought and paid for with the lives of many of our colleagues throughout modern first world aviation experience. You will be held to account. For now, and speaking solely for myself, you can be assured that I will do all I individually can to resist and foil your misguided, self-centered and misinformed plans. The rest of my colleagues can make their own mind up. I see you for exactly who and what you are. It's not a pleasant sight.
Last edited by Trafalgar; 12th Aug 2015 at 17:10.
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Nothing will be done
Too many vested interests on the GC including commuters and Gday workers and basing issues
A GC whom is parlayed by denial , they have no plan whatsoever
Add to that the fact that as whole the pilot body is spineless and self centred ( take the aussie pilot who says we have more to lose than the CC )
Add also to that , we dont have a leg to stand on in the courts
Its all over ladies and gents all over
Too many vested interests on the GC including commuters and Gday workers and basing issues
A GC whom is parlayed by denial , they have no plan whatsoever
Add to that the fact that as whole the pilot body is spineless and self centred ( take the aussie pilot who says we have more to lose than the CC )
Add also to that , we dont have a leg to stand on in the courts
Its all over ladies and gents all over
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At least AT gets things done….lots of 3 man crews already on the roster, to and from europe!
Though lets me honest, the presence of these 3 man crews has nothing to with a well thought out plan!
Though lets me honest, the presence of these 3 man crews has nothing to with a well thought out plan!
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Just because you see a 3 man roster (or other changes) doesn't mean anything is getting done. Wonder how many of these will actually be flown with the folks rostered to do so (or at all).
How efficient is a perennially unstable roster ? How efficient are multiple changes today only to create 4 gaps in the roster later in the week ? How efficient are wild swings of flight time into overtime and people being sat because they time out (or PXd home) ? How efficient is seeing (legitimate) unfit days go from 1 or 2 to 35 (that's a month of lost productivity on top of everything else). How efficient are last minute ASR-Fs from body clock swaps ? How efficient is phones that ring unanswered or PX/PTing everyone all over the place ? How efficient is burning FTLs on reserve ? How efficient is positioning someone who lives in Vancouver but LA based on reserve from LA back to Vancouver (and giving them a hotel room and allowances) only to operate out of Vancouver later ?
THESE type of things could have very real productivity gains.
How efficient is a perennially unstable roster ? How efficient are multiple changes today only to create 4 gaps in the roster later in the week ? How efficient are wild swings of flight time into overtime and people being sat because they time out (or PXd home) ? How efficient is seeing (legitimate) unfit days go from 1 or 2 to 35 (that's a month of lost productivity on top of everything else). How efficient are last minute ASR-Fs from body clock swaps ? How efficient is phones that ring unanswered or PX/PTing everyone all over the place ? How efficient is burning FTLs on reserve ? How efficient is positioning someone who lives in Vancouver but LA based on reserve from LA back to Vancouver (and giving them a hotel room and allowances) only to operate out of Vancouver later ?
THESE type of things could have very real productivity gains.
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Shep,
the mention of 3 man crew already appearing was meant very tongue in cheek. It is, though, different, now that they don't have to find a 4th crew member for each flight crewed 'legally' with 3.
the mention of 3 man crew already appearing was meant very tongue in cheek. It is, though, different, now that they don't have to find a 4th crew member for each flight crewed 'legally' with 3.
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I think the GC has a very tough job.
The company has pushed and now they have to chose what actions to take.
Mind you they are dealing with a very hostile company when it comes to these things AND, a pilot group who has a reputation to be less than unified because of self serving individuals and company promoted division.
What will YOU do if the option for serious action is presented???
Fume on PPrune?
Yammer nicely about how you are a bit upset???
Or man up and support the union???
We will get exactly what we are willing to accept.
The company has pushed and now they have to chose what actions to take.
Mind you they are dealing with a very hostile company when it comes to these things AND, a pilot group who has a reputation to be less than unified because of self serving individuals and company promoted division.
What will YOU do if the option for serious action is presented???
Fume on PPrune?
Yammer nicely about how you are a bit upset???
Or man up and support the union???
We will get exactly what we are willing to accept.
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Sorry, Hugh. Sometimes I miss things when I don't sleep......
I think the big problem is the paradigm has shifted from "how can I help the team succeed" to "how can I make this thing work for me" The two CAN go hand in hand but at present are completely opposites with a great deal of hostility.
When 99.5% of your operational subject matter experts tell you your RPs are out to lunch you have a problem.
It's a great management strategy if you like inefficiency and to lose money and assets. They've taken what can be one of the best jobs and best deals on the planet and somehow wound up pizzing everyone off.
The fact that China is bleeding capital (that may have never been there) won't help them. It's hard to buy cars with no money. And it's hard to shuffle around airplanes and missions without liquid assets.
I think the big problem is the paradigm has shifted from "how can I help the team succeed" to "how can I make this thing work for me" The two CAN go hand in hand but at present are completely opposites with a great deal of hostility.
When 99.5% of your operational subject matter experts tell you your RPs are out to lunch you have a problem.
It's a great management strategy if you like inefficiency and to lose money and assets. They've taken what can be one of the best jobs and best deals on the planet and somehow wound up pizzing everyone off.
The fact that China is bleeding capital (that may have never been there) won't help them. It's hard to buy cars with no money. And it's hard to shuffle around airplanes and missions without liquid assets.
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every pilot who starts working before the sign on time
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"warned and risk their benefits and/or membership by non-compliance"
not a lot seems to have happened to the new trainers….or are we using the convenience of 'they applied before the ban' to forget about them?
Have a list too……it'll haunt them in the end!
not a lot seems to have happened to the new trainers….or are we using the convenience of 'they applied before the ban' to forget about them?
Have a list too……it'll haunt them in the end!
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Curtain,
From AFTL
Actual Reporting Times
For all duties, the Scheduled Reporting Time or the time at which the crew member actually reports for duty, whichever is the later.
If you want to sound intelligent at least know your AFTL.
The requirement for not signing on early has a lot more to do with being called out of reserve. In that scenario, yes, I use the full 2 hours 15 minutes because the actual reporting time does count.
I am not a minion, I am a free thinking man, go ahead let the GC kick me out because I signed on 10 minutes early for my published flight..I dare them! You'll find the membership numbers dwindling pretty fast.
Yes, it does matter, and pilots have been warned and risk their benefits and/or membership by non-compliance with our democratically determined actions. That 10 (or 12, or 15, or 25, or 45 minutes - depending on the non-compliant member wearing his red lanyard) provides flexibility: Either to send you on another flight, or to send you home earlier for your min rest (and no credit for showing up) for something else.
Actual Reporting Times
For all duties, the Scheduled Reporting Time or the time at which the crew member actually reports for duty, whichever is the later.
If you want to sound intelligent at least know your AFTL.
The requirement for not signing on early has a lot more to do with being called out of reserve. In that scenario, yes, I use the full 2 hours 15 minutes because the actual reporting time does count.
I am not a minion, I am a free thinking man, go ahead let the GC kick me out because I signed on 10 minutes early for my published flight..I dare them! You'll find the membership numbers dwindling pretty fast.
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Dan, please use the term "scab" only for someone who has crossed a picket line. It's not to be used lightly...
Flap (or Flaps, which is it?) maybe you haven't been around long enough, but, as far as I remember, the requirement for not signing in early is because the company does not give us enough time to adequately accomplish our pre-flight duties. Signing in on time and taking the appropriate amount of time to accomplish your pre-flight duties will necessitate a departure delay.
Got it?
Flap (or Flaps, which is it?) maybe you haven't been around long enough, but, as far as I remember, the requirement for not signing in early is because the company does not give us enough time to adequately accomplish our pre-flight duties. Signing in on time and taking the appropriate amount of time to accomplish your pre-flight duties will necessitate a departure delay.
Got it?
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Oval,
I've been here long enough thank you very much, maybe too long!! Last time I checked we weren't in MSS. You do know what I mean by that right?
We are in Contract Compliance period. I have not seen any directives from the HKAOA to attempt to delay departures. Even if you sign on at precisely the sign on time, you are still required to complete all your preflight duties on time. We've been signing on at STD-70 in HKG now for several years, long before CC was implemented.
As I said, let's not get carried away. I challenge anyone to give me a valid example of how signing on 10 minutes early on your published flight jeopardizes CC.
I've been here long enough thank you very much, maybe too long!! Last time I checked we weren't in MSS. You do know what I mean by that right?
We are in Contract Compliance period. I have not seen any directives from the HKAOA to attempt to delay departures. Even if you sign on at precisely the sign on time, you are still required to complete all your preflight duties on time. We've been signing on at STD-70 in HKG now for several years, long before CC was implemented.
As I said, let's not get carried away. I challenge anyone to give me a valid example of how signing on 10 minutes early on your published flight jeopardizes CC.
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If you're at dispatch 10 minutes early and CC need someone asap to crew a flight, the first place they look is dispatch. And if you are there early, it does give them an advantage
Believe me I detest management as much as you do and I do more than my share. What I also don't like is super militant individuals acting like goons without any concept of how things work. Anyway enough ranting.
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And ask yourself why it's soooooooo important for you to get ready 10 minutes earlier that you get credit for....
You do realize we get absolutely no credit for that time at flight dispatch right? regardless if you show up on time or early.
The lack of unity and progress is because of people like you.
O3H,
I have thought long and hard about this.
Dictionary definition of a scab: a worker who refuses to join a labour union or to participate in a union strike, who takes a striking worker's place on the job, or the like.
The training ban is effectively a Strike against Training so to speak. These guys are not participating in this ban (strike), and they are taking these positions (crossing the line) of colleagues equally entitled to these positions but who instead choose to uphold the ban.
Sorry, but by definition they are scabs. And I have a growing list.
I have thought long and hard about this.
Dictionary definition of a scab: a worker who refuses to join a labour union or to participate in a union strike, who takes a striking worker's place on the job, or the like.
The training ban is effectively a Strike against Training so to speak. These guys are not participating in this ban (strike), and they are taking these positions (crossing the line) of colleagues equally entitled to these positions but who instead choose to uphold the ban.
Sorry, but by definition they are scabs. And I have a growing list.
Please.
Just relax, do your job. No more.