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A Few Ideas......

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A Few Ideas......

Old 18th Jul 2015, 07:50
  #1 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Jul 2015
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A Few Ideas......

After the last year it has become apparent that many things need to change at Cathay to ensure we're all happy campers, and I appreciate we have a part to play. So I thought it was time for a positive thread to highlight some suggestions for management on how things can be improved (aside from just pay rises, and things that cost money) whether they are things other airlines do or just little things that might go to make things nicer. Let's try and keep it cordial, and professional and pertinent and constructive feedback. Here's my 2 Cents worth.

1) In the Flight-deck -
Hurry up and get I-pads issued to us all.
Proper back lumbar supports
Healthy crew meals I.e. Proper portions of things like salads -should be a whole main course e.g. Greek salad with grilled chicken kebabs.
Oh and get rid of the water spray and replace with a nice moisturiser...much more hydrating.
2) Training - stop the wastage (eg unnecessary sims....most 2nd officers do more than double the min required amount of sims then they still go on to do a full type rating....so much room for savings on sim / trainer costs (or negotiate with HKCAD, if possible so full type rating can be issued after the 3 years with all 'training' items complete) ......money saved put towards increase HKPA
second day of base training...is it really necessary? .....saving for one day of base training put towards increase in HKPA.
Get transition courses to go zero flight time...put savings towards increase in HKPA,
Get rid of unnecessary QL, trainer saving cost put towards increase in HKPA) - yearly line check anyhow.
Get rid of the term 'junior' first officer it is both derogatory and extremely outdated - rename First officer under probation...I don't see any 'junior' Captains
Set up an anonymous feedback system via a 3rd party company on all sims and training events whereby crews can 'really' say what their experience was and more importantly how trainers get 'honest' feedback to allow them to develop and be the best in the industry (like BA have set up)
'Train' crews before 'checking' them or just actually train them properly? Or actually remove the term 'checking' from the vocabulary and change the culture to a 'training' gentlemanly airline I.e. an airline that's actually looking forward instead of 30 years behind.
Allow crews (both captains and first officers) to be trained as sim operators and use the empty sim sessions for non-jeopardy practice - much more productive learning in a relaxed environment. (like BA does).
3) rosters - don't roster sims late / through the night then have a flight rostered early after, or roster sims after leave - pointless if you think individuals will study on much needed time off which is constantly happening.
Flights - keep early reports together and late reports together, constantly having lates to earlies and earlies to lates without proper time for rest adjustments (is it really that hard to do a run of constant lates a few days off then constant earlies).
Stop with the isolated one days off its useless to catch up from a week of hard work and only adds to long term fatigue issues.
Stop calling out an early reserve for a late flight to 'save the late reserve just in case' - early reserve should be for early flights and vice versa so proper rest can be planned.
Stop SOs on the min rest Dxb flights - if cabin crew need a full night for safety so should the flight crew, and SOs should be given at least same rest as cabin crew, just because 'it's legal' doesn't mean it's sensible.
Try and keep the crews together down route where possible to build a social and good team working environment for better relationships between the flight crew and cabin.
Get rid of the 'formal' introductions I think flight crew should make their intro in the cabin crew briefing room and break down the barriers making a more relaxed and 'modern' working relationships (I digress).
Crewing to be more transparent - list the flights that are un-crewed so crew can choose pick up the un-crewed flight for a 'ace' card to wipe a trip later on (helps crewing in the short term and allows crews to get late notice time off for a variety of lifestyle things - win/win) The rest picked up from reserve call outs (again BA have a system like this)....after CC, of course.
Honour all requests or just admit only the first 2 get processed, and have done with it.
Have one month of all reserve rostered then 'stable' rosters for the rest of the year.
Set up useful 'lifestyle' rosters or give crews the ability for temporary overseas basings again and even local Asian ones.
Or provide commuting rosters to allow new joiners an appropriate accommodation option like other Asian carriers.
.....I'll let the ideas roll in on rosters, as Pandora's box will open......
4) HKPA -hurry up and increase, many officers are running up debt to survive
5) implement a fast track school application for new officers or reintroduce overseas education to HK ESF limit.
6) Give SO officers the ability to choose from HKPA or a company paid accommodation ( larger size for those with family) like Emirates.
7) Staff Travel - extend to a certain number of 'nominated' companions, then at least siblings can bring their husbands and children to visit and single people their friends.
Extend FOC to Dragon air too.
Allow 'free' business class upgrades after a certain number of years service.
Let FOC actually mean free of charge (or at the very least the correct tax without the fuel surcharge etc).
8) provide sleep seats for crews at HQ to rest in after long duties before driving home.
9) free coffee in crew check in (and tea please of the English sort with fresh milk)
10) fresh milk for the free coffee in the sim block.
11) better ear defenders
12) change the 'stuffy' conservative culture into a more innovative 'fun' airline
13) hopefully not too late this one.,,.add platinum stripes on the new uniform to represent a 'real' change, instead of keeping the tacky gold that makes us look like a South American General.
13) whilst we're at it create a positive moto we can all rally behind and pin it to the captains jacket....
14) Pay out a decent profit share...it's only fair or provide us with dividend shares in the company.

Err think that's about it for me for now.......
Reverend Green is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2015, 13:43
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Join Date: Jan 2014
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The option of 50% or 75% contracts would be nice ......and I like the idea of fresh milk in the sim block!
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Old 18th Jul 2015, 16:02
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Join Date: Aug 2008
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Reverend Green, I guess your new career flying Cathay's shiny jets isn't quite as wonderful as you hoped it would be. Too bad nobody warned you before you signed up. Oh, wait a second... Isn't that what we do on PPRuNe every f'ing day?
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Old 18th Jul 2015, 16:52
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Reverend. You've certainly established why you get paid to drive planes as opposed to managing airlines.

Rebranding Cathay Pacific into a "fun and crazy" airline is my favorite. And the Queen should get a tattoo across her face.
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Old 18th Jul 2015, 17:17
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Join Date: May 2009
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"13) whilst we're at it create a positive moto we can all rally behind and pin it to the captains jacket...."

Don't P1ss on my jacket and tell me it's raining
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Old 18th Jul 2015, 19:04
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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Less training for SO? Obviously you are one of those "know it all" type of guys, must be a bundle of joy to fly with.
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Old 18th Jul 2015, 22:49
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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RG,

You are so naive. Have you learned any “The CPG” history?

Nothing will ever change for the better at "The CPG". Nothing has changed for the better since 1990.

Nothing will change for the better in the future.

Pilots will never be unified.

It is our train set and WE do what we please with it. You are an employee and you do what we say.

We are not Emirates. Live with it. If you want to be like Emirates, go there. We don't care. Pilots will fly our shiny jets for peanuts so we will just hire more.

If you don't like the way things are now, leave. You will not like it in the future. Pay back your loan and leave.

Go back to your home country and fly your corroded jets with a good roster or you stay at "The CPG" and fly our nice shiny jets and the way we do things.

Nothing will change here so stop whining.

You are all cheep employee's that make us a lot of money. We weeded out A Scale, we are weeding out B scale and soon enough all will be on E scale.

To My Bonus.
The Management.


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Old 19th Jul 2015, 00:05
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I don't think any airline is particularly good to be honest, but what does surprise me about Cathay however is how they run the rosters like a low cost airline and the utter contempt it appears they have for their pilots.

It is intriguing given Cathays 'legacy'. A shame to be sure the decline, but the decline is still a little behind the rest of the industry (no doubt in another 30 years Cathay may close the door on expats altogether like Singapore - I'm sure there will be ample supply of ex-Chinese airforce guys). The pay will never be what is was (I'm over that but apparently some are not. I'm constantly comparing my - and this is the things for wannabes - DISPOSABLE income and lifestyle with several other jobs and now the global market has picked up, and banking heavy jet time, we don't have to take whatever job we can - which happened to be Cathay as they are desperate).


So now after voting down the RPs there is a chance for lifestyle negotiations. Unfortunately it appears you used to have some good things but voted/ negotiated them away in the past. I'm still in a position whereby I can leave, and like all my peers I speak to, are constantly weighing up whether we will, so if don't see change rest assured I'm off. It looks like for most there is a window before seniority makes it a harder decision. This next year is critical for Cathay in a lot of people's decisions and the RPs and HKPA will speak volumes to how the 'new' Cathay management want to play things and will tell us if it's worth staying or going to be on the same or higher disposable income elsewhere. I didn't need to draw a line in the sand I'm coming in with fresh eyes looking to the future not dwelling in the past. And if I leave and a new E scale comes in so be it, I have no loyalty to Cathay at present, not until they show me they want to be great again. I don't blame the bean counters, there have been some hard times for airlines 9-11, SARS, Asian flu, global economic crisis...and most likely another one in a few years. However now those challenges are behind us time to get things moving forward and time to invest in the people.

Now back to the post.

15) Time the company invested in our product it is inferior to Emirates.
16) get rid of the seniority system in collaboration with pilot unions world wide so labour forces will drive wages higher, and it's easier to leave if things get worse.

Ps my experience is the pilots are in it for themselves unlike the cabin crew who appear very United.

17) if things don't improve time for a peaceful sit - in on days off.
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Old 19th Jul 2015, 01:41
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BA are using cruise relief pilots for the A380 as they can't meet the training demand at present - perhaps a glimpse into cathays future too (350 pilots needed by end of 2016). They get a full type rating and will go in the sim once every 90 days to stay current. If your worried about the lack of experience the company should provide a full type rating on joining. I expect (even with the masses of extra sims and failures and re-tests and wasted instructor time it still comes out cheaper doing it their way). Numerous times SOs complain at being tested and checked on things they have never even been taught and then surprise, they need extra sims for training (how backwards and wasteful is that - don't judge them until they are trained and qualified) the system is a failure and I'm surprised it saves money. You are more likely to die from the 'white death' in your coffee than a SO though. Small changes can make a more pleasant experience.

anyhow back to the thread nice to see some positivity -

15) invest in the product its inferior to Emirates.
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Old 19th Jul 2015, 01:43
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Join Date: Nov 2009
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Reverend reveals he is just a HKPA s/o bitching with the most inane ideas...


Lots of those s/o just dont need extra sectors some should be godamn sacked they are that useless. You get the occasional bright s/o or jfo and u know they are fine but finding them very very rare....


U dont like the shit you got, CX will only understand with your leaving....dont let the door hit you on the way out....

Read the 49 ers book if you want to know what they will do with your bright ideas
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Old 19th Jul 2015, 03:34
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Great wind-up Reverend.

Even sucked in some of our regular FH contributors such as The Manager.
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Old 19th Jul 2015, 07:06
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15) wake up
Sam Ting Wong is online now  
Old 19th Jul 2015, 08:02
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: HK- A little bit of industrial China in every breath you take.
Posts: 515
What moisturiser does BA supply? Maybe a hair gel dispenser in the bathrooms and manicure/pedicure allowance? A pillow menu in the crew rest, company jammy jams with your initials embroided on them, hankies not tissues? Pressurised oxygen tents for the beijing and shanghai overnights perhaps. Oh yes, and less training for SOs. All of these options have the same credibility.
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Old 19th Jul 2015, 12:09
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I think sleep suits for crew rest are a great idea much more practical then the 'sleeping bag' I've not seen one person use. I could do with one and I think they should add them to the new uniform list....I'll swop it for my useless winter jacket.

And just to balance things out it's my belief that the wastage in training is more than evident also on command upgrades, if not more so. It may be the belief by some that Cathay has the hardest course in the world and hence the highest chop rate......but it's blatant obvious that people failed because they weren't trained correctly in the 12 years previously. It's absurd the past numbers. So as a company we're faced with the high costs of retraining and wasted instructor time which could be channelled into HKPA. To have people learn everything themselves and point out where they haven't learnt it properly by checking them might have been good enough with the steady stream of high experienced personnel, but it appears only now is Cathay adjusting into a training organisation.

It's nice to see however that our head of training is having some good effect as the line checks are slowly becoming a more gentlemanly affair, and there are some great guys in the sim block now (despite me being biased I have to take my hat off to the ex BA and Virgin guys in there).

So another idea, one that Emirates use, is to have yearly line checks alternate between the aircraft and the sim to allow at least one year of another good (training) loft.
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Old 19th Jul 2015, 12:36
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About time we got hotels in the city centre.
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Old 19th Jul 2015, 15:32
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R.G ….make up a phrase out of the following words:

Cuckoo Land Cloud
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Old 19th Jul 2015, 15:41
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Join Date: Aug 2002
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I he's Peter Hay's nephew.
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Old 19th Jul 2015, 16:40
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BA are using cruise relief pilots for the A380 as they can't meet the training demand at present - perhaps a glimpse into cathays future too
Bollox. It's business as usual with a 'heavy' FO on three-crew and a 'heavy' Capt & FO on a four-crew. No such thing as an SO or dedicated 'cruise relief'. The heavy on the outbound flight become(s) the operating on the inbound flight.
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Old 20th Jul 2015, 00:13
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Dear Reverend,

While I applaud your enthusiasm, your naivite is frightening. If there's a more threadbare yarn in the annals than the young buck full of p1ss and vinegar who knows-it-all and is going to change the world, I haven't heard it yet. Brace yourself, I have a shocking revelation for you. Deep breath... ready... this might be hard to fathom... but you aren't the first person who has come into an operation, sized it up, and found it to be wanting. No better, AND have some few choice ideas on just how the perceived "problems" might be fixed. Kudos for joining the long grey line of faceless nameless minions who have gone to their grave with heads full of also-had great ideas that never come to fruition.

Newsflash. Modern corporations are something akin to feudal fiefdoms, and rather than view employees as inestimable human capital and part of the collective effort to maximize the operation's potential profits by all means necessary, including the experience, wisdom, views and opinions of the thousands of line personnel who collectively possess more wisdom and knowhow than a million managerial trusts… these entities are rather run top-down by corporate lords and ladies who fancy themselves modern versions of barons, dukes and duchesses. Their “vision” is inherent dear chap. You are just human fodder at the bottom of the chain.

You could have opted to take the other route... by investing in some fancy "school"--yes, parantheses--where you could chance the long hard slog to the top of the feudal domain via some MBA mill or law “school;” the back office, some project team, some other office... and who knows... after 20 years of living on your knees servicing the lords and ladies, maybe a chance at a corporate knighthood your ownself where you finally at long last have the chance to demonstrate to the world your deep and hidden reservoir of intellectual acumen... but you chose the route of serfdom, sorry, I meant… employee.

“Pilot” is probably one the most glorified employees in the history of corporate serfdom, but in the end, you are just a serf. Shut your bloody trap, keep it shut, and get busy cranking out widgets for the Masters of the Universe. Don’t wonder how any business school type who couldn’t tell a a screw from a bolt or a slat from a flap gets to ride herd over thousands of professional aviators. Yours is not to reason why, etcetera… etcetera… etcetera. Your opinions, however cute, were not solicited, and won’t be.

If you wish to break this mold, make your own destiny. Go fly your own single-engine one-plane outfit somewhere and go reinvent the business model. Who knows, with a little bit of luck, maybe your ideas become demonstrably better to the industry and you become another Captain of Industry that way.

BUT… please extend us the courtesy and realization that for every young gun who comes raring into the world with his hair on fire there are long lines of your olders, and betters, who at one time stood in your shiny new shoes with just so much enthusiasm and eagerness. And then a little something called “reality” came knocking.


Best of luck to you.
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Old 20th Jul 2015, 03:31
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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Originally Posted by Shutterbug View Post
Dear Reverend,

While I applaud your enthusiasm, your naivite is frightening. If there's a more threadbare yarn in the annals than the young buck full of p1ss and vinegar who knows-it-all and is going to change the world, I haven't heard it yet. Brace yourself, I have a shocking revelation for you. Deep breath... ready... this might be hard to fathom... but you aren't the first person who has come into an operation, sized it up, and found it to be wanting. No better, AND have some few choice ideas on just how the perceived "problems" might be fixed. Kudos for joining the long grey line of faceless nameless minions who have gone to their grave with heads full of also-had great ideas that never come to fruition.

Newsflash. Modern corporations are something akin to feudal fiefdoms, and rather than view employees as inestimable human capital and part of the collective effort to maximize the operation's potential profits by all means necessary, including the experience, wisdom, views and opinions of the thousands of line personnel who collectively possess more wisdom and knowhow than a million managerial trusts… these entities are rather run top-down by corporate lords and ladies who fancy themselves modern versions of barons, dukes and duchesses. Their “vision” is inherent dear chap. You are just human fodder at the bottom of the chain.

You could have opted to take the other route... by investing in some fancy "school"--yes, parantheses--where you could chance the long hard slog to the top of the feudal domain via some MBA mill or law “school;” the back office, some project team, some other office... and who knows... after 20 years of living on your knees servicing the lords and ladies, maybe a chance at a corporate knighthood your ownself where you finally at long last have the chance to demonstrate to the world your deep and hidden reservoir of intellectual acumen... but you chose the route of serfdom, sorry, I meant… employee.

“Pilot” is probably one the most glorified employees in the history of corporate serfdom, but in the end, you are just a serf. Shut your bloody trap, keep it shut, and get busy cranking out widgets for the Masters of the Universe. Don’t wonder how any business school type who couldn’t tell a a screw from a bolt or a slat from a flap gets to ride herd over thousands of professional aviators. Yours is not to reason why, etcetera… etcetera… etcetera. Your opinions, however cute, were not solicited, and won’t be.

If you wish to break this mold, make your own destiny. Go fly your own single-engine one-plane outfit somewhere and go reinvent the business model. Who knows, with a little bit of luck, maybe your ideas become demonstrably better to the industry and you become another Captain of Industry that way.

BUT… please extend us the courtesy and realization that for every young gun who comes raring into the world with his hair on fire there are long lines of your olders, and betters, who at one time stood in your shiny new shoes with just so much enthusiasm and eagerness. And then a little something called “reality” came knocking.


Best of luck to you.
Wow, post of the century right here.
JuniorMan is offline  

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