Pay negotiations concluded
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Nippi
Pay negotiations concluded
If I may take a quote from ole RF's missive.
"While the GC acknowledges that the numbers surrounding a pay deal will be contentious, "
He did note that no productivity increases were asked for by the company. Frankly, flying 900 hrs a year. I don't see how I could possibly be anymore productive. I really hope the U.S. and N.Z. folks were not left to hang in the cold, again.
Adios
"While the GC acknowledges that the numbers surrounding a pay deal will be contentious, "
He did note that no productivity increases were asked for by the company. Frankly, flying 900 hrs a year. I don't see how I could possibly be anymore productive. I really hope the U.S. and N.Z. folks were not left to hang in the cold, again.
Adios
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 36
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From: Australia
I am unaware that the management asked for any productivity - because they already mugged us and TOOK it by cancelling the RPs.
The issue is not the 900hrs - I work my butt off and don't hit the 900hr limit. So, they’ve arranged for me to work harder and I still won't hit the 900hr limit. They get productivity from 2 man AUS and 3 man EUR flights and we will just work harder.
Not impressed.
The issue is not the 900hrs - I work my butt off and don't hit the 900hr limit. So, they’ve arranged for me to work harder and I still won't hit the 900hr limit. They get productivity from 2 man AUS and 3 man EUR flights and we will just work harder.
Not impressed.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 405
Likes: 3
From: The Cesspit
The numbers may well be contentious.
"But there was no demand from management that we give up productivity in return for pay" apart from rip up your Rostering Practice and smoke it, blowing rings into the faces of the NC.
Seriously Rod?? Didn't take u long to start suffering Stockholm sydrome.
Are you following in the footsteps of past AOA presidents and taking a cushy base after this recommendation gets up?
This should not be put up for a vote until the RP's are sorted out.
We're being asked to bet while only being shown half the hand.
And the half a hand we're seeing is "contentious".
"But there was no demand from management that we give up productivity in return for pay" apart from rip up your Rostering Practice and smoke it, blowing rings into the faces of the NC.
Seriously Rod?? Didn't take u long to start suffering Stockholm sydrome.
Are you following in the footsteps of past AOA presidents and taking a cushy base after this recommendation gets up?
This should not be put up for a vote until the RP's are sorted out.
We're being asked to bet while only being shown half the hand.
And the half a hand we're seeing is "contentious".
Last edited by Progress Wanchai; 4th May 2015 at 19:31.
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 507
Likes: 43
From: US
An acceptable TA on pay:
1. Will be straightforward. While some types of contracts are necessarily complex, pay rise increments are about as simple as it comes. It will not have strings attached or trickery in an attempt to bribe or buy votes.
2. Will be uniform. It will be an across the board increase without trying to play sectors off against each other. If a locality has currency issues this can be adjusted through things like HKPA. Moreover, currencies and CPI-U are manipulated in various countries as to mask real inflation; we should not let this be exploited.
3. Will NOT be divisive; divisive or disparate increases are nothing more than union busting in sheeps clothing. Agreeing to a marginal increase for the many at the expense of some creates resentments and divisions for everyone and is wholly unacceptable.
4. Will not play games. Will not take away 5% somewhere else and give 4% back trying to make this look like a gain or something it's not.
5. Won't need marketing to 'sell' it; the figures will speak for themselves.
CC IS very much working. The company is starting to figure out that continuous reserve is horrendously inefficient and doesn't work and folks are timing out. We have been successful in attaining a productivity level commensurate with not going above and beyond or being helpful above the contract and there's little availabe to counter it. Moreover, in time it could become a way of life (just like at other major airlnes) as folks get used to it. I think the company has a genuine concern that this might happen.
We are heading into the busy travel season and need to make sure this isn't simply a trick to get us out of CC--as CC was initiated over pay. Moreover a REAL inflationary adjustment isn't a gift--it's our right. Inflation favors big business with large capital assets because wages always lag inflation (and in practice few nations ever experience TRUE deflationary periods with fiat currencies). The company gets as much or more for less in any inflationary period. The 'productivity increase' argument is often exploited as a red herring--anytime inflation happens the company GETS a de-facto productivity increase automatically. Given the competitive pilot market and relatively short supply we finally have a real advantage here and shoudn't blow it.
If it winds up being a genuine and honest offer which reflects a reasonable inflationary adjustment then go for it. If it's a meh........, something seems 'not quite right,' or throws breathern under the bus reject it (and one can wait for the inevitable 'imposition' anyway). Hopefully the leadership will carefully review it and won't bring forward anything that is bogus or an offer that once again tries to divide us against ourselves.
And hopefully it IS an honest, reasonable, and forthright offer. That's really all that folks have been asking for from the get-go.
1. Will be straightforward. While some types of contracts are necessarily complex, pay rise increments are about as simple as it comes. It will not have strings attached or trickery in an attempt to bribe or buy votes.
2. Will be uniform. It will be an across the board increase without trying to play sectors off against each other. If a locality has currency issues this can be adjusted through things like HKPA. Moreover, currencies and CPI-U are manipulated in various countries as to mask real inflation; we should not let this be exploited.
3. Will NOT be divisive; divisive or disparate increases are nothing more than union busting in sheeps clothing. Agreeing to a marginal increase for the many at the expense of some creates resentments and divisions for everyone and is wholly unacceptable.
4. Will not play games. Will not take away 5% somewhere else and give 4% back trying to make this look like a gain or something it's not.
5. Won't need marketing to 'sell' it; the figures will speak for themselves.
CC IS very much working. The company is starting to figure out that continuous reserve is horrendously inefficient and doesn't work and folks are timing out. We have been successful in attaining a productivity level commensurate with not going above and beyond or being helpful above the contract and there's little availabe to counter it. Moreover, in time it could become a way of life (just like at other major airlnes) as folks get used to it. I think the company has a genuine concern that this might happen.
We are heading into the busy travel season and need to make sure this isn't simply a trick to get us out of CC--as CC was initiated over pay. Moreover a REAL inflationary adjustment isn't a gift--it's our right. Inflation favors big business with large capital assets because wages always lag inflation (and in practice few nations ever experience TRUE deflationary periods with fiat currencies). The company gets as much or more for less in any inflationary period. The 'productivity increase' argument is often exploited as a red herring--anytime inflation happens the company GETS a de-facto productivity increase automatically. Given the competitive pilot market and relatively short supply we finally have a real advantage here and shoudn't blow it.
If it winds up being a genuine and honest offer which reflects a reasonable inflationary adjustment then go for it. If it's a meh........, something seems 'not quite right,' or throws breathern under the bus reject it (and one can wait for the inevitable 'imposition' anyway). Hopefully the leadership will carefully review it and won't bring forward anything that is bogus or an offer that once again tries to divide us against ourselves.
And hopefully it IS an honest, reasonable, and forthright offer. That's really all that folks have been asking for from the get-go.
Last edited by Shep69; 4th May 2015 at 15:30.
Joined: Dec 1998
Posts: 223
Likes: 66
Twenty years of being abused, disrespected and lied to? My CC is permanent to the day of retirement. The ONLY thing a proper contract will buy from me will be my consideration in not taking 'some time off' on an adhoc and gratuitous basis. They lost my loyalty and consideration years ago. That is what bad management accomplishes.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 5
From: London
Regarding the recent increases to staff travel costs: I have the discretion to save "X" amount on each flight that I operate. I can assure you that from now on I will make SURE that I use that discretion in a way that guarantees that any potential cost saving will be HEAVILY factored towards the "safety" side of the formula. In other words, the THOUSANDS of dollars I could save EACH flight will now be lost to a professional emphasis on safety. The word "loathing" does not even begin to describe how I feel about the management of this airline. Making a profit center of your own employees is disgusting and venal.
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
From: Not in a Bus
Staying in CC for RP's etc etc, if the pay increase is accepted, would that then not put the AOA in breach of the Good Faith Bargaining Agreement and play into the company's hands?
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 397
Likes: 0
From: hong kong
So more bones of massive contention are to be served up , is anyone really surprised?
All I can say is turn up to the Focus meeting ( including some local pilots please !) and ask the question to the NC .
There is no genuine effort by management , and there never will be until they learn good and proper, the value of our collective goodwill.
All I can say is turn up to the Focus meeting ( including some local pilots please !) and ask the question to the NC .
There is no genuine effort by management , and there never will be until they learn good and proper, the value of our collective goodwill.
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
From: Not in a Bus
When a whole demographic fails to turn up to an event in which they, (to some extent, more than others), have a vested interest, you have to wonder what more important stuff they are doing on their "?" days off?
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 241
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From: Hong Kong
Bob Hawke,
Iceman is correct.
If we accept the pay offer CC has to be cancelled, and then we must start all over again for rostering practices under the terms of the GFBFA. That's the deal!
Where did the 2/2/1 come from? Except out of sirhcttarp's arse?
Iceman is correct.
If we accept the pay offer CC has to be cancelled, and then we must start all over again for rostering practices under the terms of the GFBFA. That's the deal!
Where did the 2/2/1 come from? Except out of sirhcttarp's arse?
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
From: Brisbane
Company has already called an impasse on RPs so no need to start again. Also no problem extending cc to the still outstanding issues of RPs, HKPA etc and having RPs not put in policy but returned to cos.
We vote as we see fit over the pay but irrespective of the outcome remain in cc as the other outstanding issues need to be resolved. The company have shown their insincerity in their promises (think SLS agreement/25 year housing).
We vote as we see fit over the pay but irrespective of the outcome remain in cc as the other outstanding issues need to be resolved. The company have shown their insincerity in their promises (think SLS agreement/25 year housing).