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Bad Cop, Good Cop

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Bad Cop, Good Cop

Old 14th Feb 2015, 00:48
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 2,047
Bad Cop, Good Cop

RH and AT must think CX pilots are really dumb. If they believe this latest round of weekly missives is fooling us, they are sorely mistaken. Do they really think anyone on the seniority list is not familiar with this tactic? That's all it is, a desperate strategy to intimidate and then win back good will by dangling carrots of hope for change. It's BS, and we all know it. Nothing they say matters at this stage. Only actions will fix the worsening problem. The ball is in their court. Fix it or see many more weeks like the last one with several cancelled and delayed flights, under-utilized aircraft, and pissed off customers. All while demand is robust and fuel is at decade lows. Oh well, just another missed opportunity. Better to lose money and teach the pilots a lesson about who's in charge than make money and treat them fairly.
cxorcist is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2015, 01:15
  #2 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 94
Thought exactly the same thing! Mr/Mrs/s/Lord/Sir/Dame CXorcist

They are worried about CNY!!!!
Just Do It is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2015, 03:49
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Wherever I lay my hat.
Posts: 111
That's the sad thing about all of this.... RH couldn't demonstrate any real integrity if his life depended on it, but AT on the other hand could fix this in a heartbeat if she simply brought some newfound mutual respect, understanding and fairness to the table. Both sides, AOA included need to start afresh with GENUINE understanding of both party's frustrations and deal with each other with mutual respect.
Hopefully, with RH as far away as possible, AT might start the ball rolling. It certainly would be good to see this toxic Management/Workforce relationship start to move back in the right direction without self important, self aggrandising yes men sabotaging any glimmer of goodwill the moment it arises.
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Old 14th Feb 2015, 04:48
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Hotel
Posts: 175
How about they actually act on a few items as opposed to just talk talk talk .

There are things which will cost them a minimum to fix - and will massively increase goodwill:

Rostering ( A days anyone?), Leave , Staff travel etc
For a company with 3000 pilots there IS NO EXCUSE for these things to be at the same level as some dinky third world airline.

Then there are things which may cost a bit more like housing and pay - fine - that may take a while....

But WHO CARES about all the blah blah blah when they are unwilling to even adress the things that are simple and cheap to fix.

missingblade is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2015, 05:28
  #5 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Here ---> X
Posts: 437
but AT on the other hand could fix this in a heartbeat if she simply brought some newfound mutual respect,
Sure she could. But is it up to her?
Isn't the DFO just a puppet whose strings are pulled from the 9th floor, where the only recognized strategy is to crush the rebel scum and forcefully suppress any disobedient and disorderly behavior among the pilot body at any cost?
Yonosoy Marinero is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2015, 10:25
  #6 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: hong kong
Posts: 19
She will be just like all the others. Nothing will change.
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Old 14th Feb 2015, 10:37
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: U.K.
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Kasompe Quote "RH couldn't demonstrate any real integrity"

RH is not alone. I think you would have to go back about 30 years to the last DFO that had any of the "right stuff".
FERetd is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2015, 14:19
  #8 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2008
Location: All Over
Posts: 471
Actions speak louder than words.

The solutions to ALL points of contention (pay, A days, rostering, HKPA, etc.) have been presented and are on the table. They aren't particularly costly (the pay alone is simply an across the board inflation adjustment just like everyone else is getting; off the shelf rostering programs are available and could be up and running in less than a month, the A day situation was self inflicted by the company, the HKPA is simply maintaining a reasonable standard of living like in the past), and have mutually beneficial gains.

And would there be less arrogance, conceit, and trickery the major points of contention could be eliminated in ONE--repeat ONE day. It's OK to admit when one is wrong; in fact having the guts to do so can be the mark of a great leader.

It is saddening and frustrating how these folks are so determined to leave a trail of broken windows in their wake when this energy could be used for good. Instead of whinging and threatening (and despite the differences to date) imagine what a legacy for an outgoing DFO to be the guy who helped turn the place around and fix things--inspiring confidence and trust once again--and what a great accomplishment that would be to look back upon decades later. All that it would take is doing the right thing and treating folks right. We have a great job with great people and great equipment going to cool places; simply a few relatively minor things (but of great value and importance to the lifestyle of the people involved) would not only benefit those working here but also in huge productivity gains as folks once again looked forward to coming to work for a great team.

Last edited by Shep69; 14th Feb 2015 at 15:46.
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Old 14th Feb 2015, 15:46
  #9 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Brexitland
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I wonder who is the real 'playmaker' here who is calling all the 'anti-aircrew shots? They've now got so many different COS in an effort to split us but it's actually united everybody against whoever this clown is. 'Messengers' like DFO's and GMA's are just that and will do as they are ordered because they have no honour or integrity but who on earth is giving the orders?
What's their Plan B? Another 49ers episode? Threats and face-saving - it's hardly a 'breakthrough Management style'.
Stick this out and ignore Hall's stupid letters. It's hurting and about time too!
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Old 15th Feb 2015, 00:00
  #10 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
Posts: 15
It's hilarious to me that he gave us a 4% pay rise and still managed to piss us off.
Had he done so a year earlier, cc probably would probably never even been voted on.
Oasis is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2015, 01:17
  #11 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: H.K
Posts: 58
In 20 plus years nothing has gotten better, quite the opposite, everything has gone downhill. Our staff travel priorities have just gotten lower. The one I can't figure out is that even when we are willing to spend big bucks to buy a J class ticket you don't get any benefit, the most senior person gets on even if they just have a Y ticket??? This from an airline that wants to make maximum money????

Medical, it has gotten the the point now that if you fall down and brake your leg you need to call a doctor on the panel to make sure it will be covered. Then there is the case where you are overseas and something happens and you need to try and get enough room on your credit card to pay for it and hope you don't have to battle to long to be refunded.

Bonus, what bonus???? Every airline gives their profit share based on salary just like CX used too but now we get the same as the grd staff??? Does the grd staff save 100kg of jet fuel every sector. Even worse when you look at the percentage of salary of bonus we now see times when the grd staff get the equivalent of 4 weeks salary and we get not even 2 weeks. Oh yes I know we make more is what the company says but it isn't our fault that the grd staff chose to become grd staff over being a pilot. Just like we didn't choose to become A CX manager where no matter what you get crazy bonuses. You get what you pay for!!

Benefits??? Other than staff travel there are none, did I say CX staff travel??

Bases, this is a good one. Just when we are losing our future Capts who are the last of our real experienced crew they throw out the carrots about Basings. Like 3 of the American guys that are leaving said to me. CX has been promising this since they joined 11 years ago. That's what they said about this whole latest letter from AT. These are all promises they have been told since they joined and not one thing has changed and in fact everything has gotten worse which is why they are leaving.

It is a shame to see these guys leave but can you blame them?
Samsonite is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2015, 04:54
  #12 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: home
Posts: 220
Who is calling the shots, well who orchestrated the 49'ers, who has the ear of the Board of Directors about Flight Operations? The GMA and DFO positions have no real power but just to sign their name to documents.

Can you figure it out? Surely you are not that simpleminded?

To My Fuel Bonus,
The Management

The Management is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2015, 07:58
  #13 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: uk
Posts: 136
It would appear that they are a little short of crew today Sun 15th
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Old 15th Feb 2015, 10:11
  #14 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: hong kong
Posts: 397
The last missive from Tricky was written by Anna , hes now the 'token DFO 'she has full control now.MS will be the next GMA , more swine to rule us ....
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Old 15th Feb 2015, 11:02
  #15 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 241
If you are talking about MS, son of PS... then it can't get any better than that...
He's a Top Bloke!
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Old 15th Feb 2015, 11:42
  #16 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: hong kong
Posts: 193
She will have to be SUPER COP to fix up this massive mess built up by years of neglect. The geriatric rostering dynasty needs to go next. We must move on from sticky notes and power trips.
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Old 15th Feb 2015, 13:29
  #17 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 754
I heard that CK will be moving to GMA
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