Rostering Insanity!
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: CyberSpace
Rostering Insanity!
Crew Control: "Ah but it's legal"
Wonder if our fare paying passengers would get on the aircraft if they saw our rosters?
CX905 HKG MNL 777 20:50 22:00 00:05
CX904 MNL HKG 777 05:20 07:20 07:50
Off duty (so to speak!) at 00:35 and back in the seat 5hrs 15 min later. Minus the 30 min each way by bus to the hotel.
Total rest = 3hrs 45 min.
Why does the HK CAD allow this insanity?
Wonder if our fare paying passengers would get on the aircraft if they saw our rosters?
CX905 HKG MNL 777 20:50 22:00 00:05
CX904 MNL HKG 777 05:20 07:20 07:50
Off duty (so to speak!) at 00:35 and back in the seat 5hrs 15 min later. Minus the 30 min each way by bus to the hotel.
Total rest = 3hrs 45 min.
Why does the HK CAD allow this insanity?
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
From: U.K.
Split Duty
KRMQQ,
Don't be too concerned. Split duties are only going to be used on the odd occasion. Split duties will not be normal rostering practice.
I know that because that's what they told us when I was on the Tristar!
Trust me!
Don't be too concerned. Split duties are only going to be used on the odd occasion. Split duties will not be normal rostering practice.
I know that because that's what they told us when I was on the Tristar!
Trust me!
Joined: Mar 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 1,374
Likes: 285
From: Moved beyond
Some of you lot need to get over yourselves. Split Duties have been around for at least 20 years and aren't likely to disappear any time soon.
A Split Duty is one continuous duty period, not two separate duties. The 'rest' in the middle is used to extend the FDP, the same way as in-flight rest is used to extend the FDP.
A Split Duty is one continuous duty period, not two separate duties. The 'rest' in the middle is used to extend the FDP, the same way as in-flight rest is used to extend the FDP.
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 2,997
Likes: 35
From: Oztrailia
What a complaining bunch if pussies.
We've all had to endure split duties for 20 years and IT'S NOTHING NEW.
You can fly ULH in a noisy bumpy dry Aircraft getting 3 to 6 hours in a crappy bunk yet you somehow cannot fly to MNL and get 3 to 6 hours in a quiet cool comfortable stable hotel bed................
What's the difference???
For gods sake get a grip.
Apart from it being a waste of 2 days and very unproductive I know which one I'd rather do, it ain't the ULH....
We've all had to endure split duties for 20 years and IT'S NOTHING NEW.
You can fly ULH in a noisy bumpy dry Aircraft getting 3 to 6 hours in a crappy bunk yet you somehow cannot fly to MNL and get 3 to 6 hours in a quiet cool comfortable stable hotel bed................
What's the difference???
For gods sake get a grip.
Apart from it being a waste of 2 days and very unproductive I know which one I'd rather do, it ain't the ULH....
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 657
Likes: 47
From: Asia
Sorry ACMS...you must be the "1%" of CX pilots who like split duties.
How about we go HKG-BKK-HKG-MNL 12-14hrs off in the hotel and the next day do the same pattern in reverse. Very efficient (as efficient as regional flying can be) and not a waste of two days.
I know which one I'd rather do...and it ain't the split duty!!!
How about we go HKG-BKK-HKG-MNL 12-14hrs off in the hotel and the next day do the same pattern in reverse. Very efficient (as efficient as regional flying can be) and not a waste of two days.
I know which one I'd rather do...and it ain't the split duty!!!
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 552
Likes: 22
From: Hong Kong
Here's the rub....
The cabin crew get a compulsory day off following any split duty....
Hmmmm....do they get more tired than the two schmucks in the cockpit? Why the double standard?
I also noticed a nice shinny "new" ISM room in dispatch.....well, well, well....
I'm still waiting for a "old" captain's room....
Why the double standard?
Everywhere we fly long haul, the cabin crew get twice the rest the pilot's do.....
Again, why the double standard?
ACMS, do you think it's ok to have two sets of standards? It's not us being pussie's....it's a question of CX respecting their pilots as much as they apparently respect their cabin crew.
And if it's not already obvious, it's another reason why Cathay needs to institute a pilot get-well program.
There is a lot that needs fixing....
The cabin crew get a compulsory day off following any split duty....
Hmmmm....do they get more tired than the two schmucks in the cockpit? Why the double standard?
I also noticed a nice shinny "new" ISM room in dispatch.....well, well, well....
I'm still waiting for a "old" captain's room....
Why the double standard?
Everywhere we fly long haul, the cabin crew get twice the rest the pilot's do.....
Again, why the double standard?
ACMS, do you think it's ok to have two sets of standards? It's not us being pussie's....it's a question of CX respecting their pilots as much as they apparently respect their cabin crew.
And if it's not already obvious, it's another reason why Cathay needs to institute a pilot get-well program.
There is a lot that needs fixing....
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 472
Likes: 0
From: Nirvana
Raven,
My dear chap. The reason is they don't want us...they don't care about us, they don't even know us. We don't exist except in the guise of piddly pointy end personnel that complain to much about the crew meals, crew rest, poor uniforms, salaries, rosters, medicals, training (opps Checking!), bed bugs, coffee from the 1940s floor scrapings and hats.
Get yourself a red blouse, a hello kitty dongle thingy bobby, lots of hand lotion and five words of "engrish" stringed together for dispatch greetings and you would earn some respect.
My dear chap. The reason is they don't want us...they don't care about us, they don't even know us. We don't exist except in the guise of piddly pointy end personnel that complain to much about the crew meals, crew rest, poor uniforms, salaries, rosters, medicals, training (opps Checking!), bed bugs, coffee from the 1940s floor scrapings and hats.
Get yourself a red blouse, a hello kitty dongle thingy bobby, lots of hand lotion and five words of "engrish" stringed together for dispatch greetings and you would earn some respect.
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 725
Likes: 0
From: VHHH Ocean 2D
Sorry. Have I been living under a rock for the past 10 years. The MNL split duty has been here since I have. Why only now the complaint?
Or has a based 777 guy with 20 Gs a month living a cushy roster suddenly had to work for a living?
Or has a based 777 guy with 20 Gs a month living a cushy roster suddenly had to work for a living?
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
From: nfa
Bet..
The only complaint you'll ever hear about split duties from based crew is the brutal lack of efficiency when doing them. Spending three days in Hkg to fly 3 or 4 hours when the company is so short handed to start with is unacceptable. Split duties for based guys are DAY trips and usually involve watching TV for a few hours, not trying to scratch out a nights sleep.
BTW- Based guys get the same G days as everyone else.
The only complaint you'll ever hear about split duties from based crew is the brutal lack of efficiency when doing them. Spending three days in Hkg to fly 3 or 4 hours when the company is so short handed to start with is unacceptable. Split duties for based guys are DAY trips and usually involve watching TV for a few hours, not trying to scratch out a nights sleep.
BTW- Based guys get the same G days as everyone else.
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 382
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
I'm with ACMS on this one , the hotel in MNL is pretty nice and I actually do get some sleep vs tossing and getting bounced around in the bunk on a long haul
Then for the return trip it's only 2 hours , If any of you want to swap a NY for a MNL split consider it done
Then for the return trip it's only 2 hours , If any of you want to swap a NY for a MNL split consider it done
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 220
Likes: 0
From: home
This is a very tight pattern WRT flight duty limitations however we receive very little paperwork for Commanders Discretion.
Most Captains and First Officers do not realize they are going into discretion and don’t trouble oneself with filling out the paperwork for Commanders Discretion (the flight crew don’t keep track of their duty time). We like this lack of attentiveness in our flight crew, going that extra mile to get the job done.
If Commanders Discretion were not used, Scheduling would have to change the pattern or use outport crew but most Captains are very dedicated to “The CPG” and don’t bother with such small details that could hinder our operation.
We thank you for a job well done.
To My Bonus
(Sent on behalf of “The Management”)
Most Captains and First Officers do not realize they are going into discretion and don’t trouble oneself with filling out the paperwork for Commanders Discretion (the flight crew don’t keep track of their duty time). We like this lack of attentiveness in our flight crew, going that extra mile to get the job done.
If Commanders Discretion were not used, Scheduling would have to change the pattern or use outport crew but most Captains are very dedicated to “The CPG” and don’t bother with such small details that could hinder our operation.
We thank you for a job well done.
To My Bonus
(Sent on behalf of “The Management”)
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,148
Likes: 3
From: Brexitland
Once again - good info from The Management. Pay VERY close attention to FDP because it's easy to slip into discretion without even realising.
Get that paperwork flooding in and maybe 'they' will have to think again.
ie You can bitch and moan all day here but if this pattern produces discretion reports by the hundreds or - even better - pilots go back to the Hotel for 10 hours (actually over 11:15) then CC would start to feel the heat and the pattern would be modified.
Get that paperwork flooding in and maybe 'they' will have to think again.
ie You can bitch and moan all day here but if this pattern produces discretion reports by the hundreds or - even better - pilots go back to the Hotel for 10 hours (actually over 11:15) then CC would start to feel the heat and the pattern would be modified.