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Trafalgar- with such an arrogant attitude of entitlement perhaps you should reconsider your employment status and retire? You could then spend as much time as you wish sorting out your domestics. Please.
Sorry to put the boot in, but I too have no sympathy for those who willingly put their hand up for training and then complain about workload and life style.
And their training of pilots who are on lesser conditions than their own is yet another element of 'the race to the bottom'.
And their training of pilots who are on lesser conditions than their own is yet another element of 'the race to the bottom'.
Join Date: Mar 2008
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hmmm, arrogant and entitled? how exactly? I simply stated the obvious, and the affect it will have on their thousands of expat staff. The same staff who work a very difficult job, dealing with fatigue, disruption, and at the same time trying to manage two homes; the one they have in HK, and the one they must obviously maintain in their home countries. There is also the fact that bases have been 'frozen' for several years, making it even more difficult to deal with the expat issues.
I was convinced to leave my home country and come to HK. I was told the following: 'work hard and we will reward you, and provide certain benefits'. I moved 7000 miles on that promise. One of those benefits was staff travel. Staff travel is only a benefit if there is in fact a reasonable opportunity to actually get on an aircraft. Otherwise it is worthless. Without that benefit, many of the staff cannot maintain any sort of balanced life. Many of us need to regularly fly back to our home countries. CX knows this, and should be expected to recognise it as a necessity,as they BENEFIT from the efforts and skill of that same expat workforce.
It doesn't matter how you define the points i'm making. In the end, the company will find that their operation will become even more chaotic than it already is, and it will be directly attributable to the staff affected by this taking action to keep the balance between work and family where it needs to be. I work to live, not live to work.
Oh, and Dart, my comment is solely directed towards the company's attempt to effectively take away staff travel. I guess you don't seem to understand that. Well, you will the next time you and your family (i'm assuming you have one) try to avail yourself of the 'benefit'. Don't exactly know what me being in C & T has to do with it, other than I was explaining what I do, and why I expect at least a common airline industry benefit to maintain it's value.
I was convinced to leave my home country and come to HK. I was told the following: 'work hard and we will reward you, and provide certain benefits'. I moved 7000 miles on that promise. One of those benefits was staff travel. Staff travel is only a benefit if there is in fact a reasonable opportunity to actually get on an aircraft. Otherwise it is worthless. Without that benefit, many of the staff cannot maintain any sort of balanced life. Many of us need to regularly fly back to our home countries. CX knows this, and should be expected to recognise it as a necessity,as they BENEFIT from the efforts and skill of that same expat workforce.
It doesn't matter how you define the points i'm making. In the end, the company will find that their operation will become even more chaotic than it already is, and it will be directly attributable to the staff affected by this taking action to keep the balance between work and family where it needs to be. I work to live, not live to work.
Oh, and Dart, my comment is solely directed towards the company's attempt to effectively take away staff travel. I guess you don't seem to understand that. Well, you will the next time you and your family (i'm assuming you have one) try to avail yourself of the 'benefit'. Don't exactly know what me being in C & T has to do with it, other than I was explaining what I do, and why I expect at least a common airline industry benefit to maintain it's value.
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Dan, as you say, it really isn't worth it any more. I have no further interest in STC, and the company doesn't respect the effort put in (as evidenced by destroying the ability of it's HK based C&T staff to effectively commute). Happy to throw it away, and that day is probably here.
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To all those attacking trafalgar , whilst some have valid points to make you are ALL missing the most important point
This is going to affect every single one of us, every time we go on leave, travel for a Funeral or a wedding . Or simply to attend a function
With this new policy getting a seat on rebate travel is going to be almost impossible unless you like EY. Personally I don't
But this is our future and it's not looking very bright
This is going to affect every single one of us, every time we go on leave, travel for a Funeral or a wedding . Or simply to attend a function
With this new policy getting a seat on rebate travel is going to be almost impossible unless you like EY. Personally I don't
But this is our future and it's not looking very bright
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Trafalgar, stop whining, resign and go work for a UK based airline, with your experience you'll be in the LH seat pretty soon. Alternatively, suck it up, it was your choice in the first place. 
Last edited by Kitsune; 16th Jun 2014 at 20:26.
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Kitsune. I don't see anything he's saying as 'whining'. He is making a valid point about a change in policy that dramatically affects hundreds of the airlines commuters. You are showing a 'don't give a sh*t' attitude because it probably doesn't affect you. That is the problem with our pilot group: if a particular issue doesn't affect 'me', then 'im alright Jack'. Also, your comment about his 'self-imposed' family problem is gratuitous and crass. I know the man, and he is dealing with a difficult health issue pertaining to his son. He can't have the family in HK because of that, and there are no bases available. He joined (as did all of us) with a specific offer involving staff travel. What CX has just gone and done is basically reduce it's value to '0'. Is that acceptable to you? What other changes of policy that result in a degradation to the value of your job would you accept? Please, do send a letter to management and let them know that this is acceptable. You obviously seem unperturbed about basically having your staff travel taken away. Oh wait, are you IN management...? Just curious. That would be the only reason your comments make sense.
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Trafalgar
You raise some valid points, and I share your frustrations. It saddens me to see our (pilots) concerns, seemingly, ignored or supplanted. Every pilot I fly with tells me how frustrated, fatigued, and fed up they are with the never ending cuts.....to pay, benefits, travel policy, rest, training, crewing......
It's taken 20 years of cutting to get to where we as the pilot community of Cathay find ourselves today. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, the time has come for the company to institute a pilot "get well" program. They need to assign a senior, a very senior manager, with the authority and latitude to canvass, study, and then institute changes. It may already be too late, but this proactive approach may prevent the tipping point from being reached.
If not for purely altruistic reasons, then they should do it for the money! As smart business people the loss in dollar value that can be attached to poor pilot morale should be easy to calculate.
Sadly, I don't see this happening until the pilot resignations, or the crew control chaos, accelerate.......it's too bad because, as Trafalger has expressed, real frustrations exist.
You raise some valid points, and I share your frustrations. It saddens me to see our (pilots) concerns, seemingly, ignored or supplanted. Every pilot I fly with tells me how frustrated, fatigued, and fed up they are with the never ending cuts.....to pay, benefits, travel policy, rest, training, crewing......
It's taken 20 years of cutting to get to where we as the pilot community of Cathay find ourselves today. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, the time has come for the company to institute a pilot "get well" program. They need to assign a senior, a very senior manager, with the authority and latitude to canvass, study, and then institute changes. It may already be too late, but this proactive approach may prevent the tipping point from being reached.
If not for purely altruistic reasons, then they should do it for the money! As smart business people the loss in dollar value that can be attached to poor pilot morale should be easy to calculate.
Sadly, I don't see this happening until the pilot resignations, or the crew control chaos, accelerate.......it's too bad because, as Trafalger has expressed, real frustrations exist.
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Staff travel has always been, and always will be, on a space available basis. There will be the same number of seats available, just a different distribution. The ROE of CX is bloody awful, and you can't blame the shareholders for demanding that the management (?) use any device possible to increase it. The opposite is true, and while the affected staff are not willing or able to demonstrate that the bottom line is adversley affected by such actions they will continue to squeeze, as any management would. That's 'market forces' for you...
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Interesting that BA puts Staff with tickets ahead of Pax upgrades.
The total opposite of CX
At handover to the airport, a telex list will be sent by DUT, which will show the
priority of people to upgrade if necessary.
The order of these are:
1.Staff not in their cabin of eligibility (bookable and premium standby)
2.Space Available requests that are still outstanding
3.A list of prioritised passengers if further operational upgrades are required (in oversales situations)
Discretionary Upgrade Tool (DUT)
The total opposite of CX
At handover to the airport, a telex list will be sent by DUT, which will show the
priority of people to upgrade if necessary.
The order of these are:
1.Staff not in their cabin of eligibility (bookable and premium standby)
2.Space Available requests that are still outstanding
3.A list of prioritised passengers if further operational upgrades are required (in oversales situations)
Discretionary Upgrade Tool (DUT)
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An ex Uni colleague is employed with BA at a 'high level' in their management. Spoke last night with him, and this new CX policy came up. He told me the following. BA have a specific favouring of their staff in the upgrade policy for ONE main reason: staff morale is 'crucial' (his word) to the maintenance of the airline operation. Says it all really. He said they would love to upsell the seats, but to remove the staff travel perk from their employees (effectively what CX is doing) would almost certainly cost them far more grief and cost than any perceived gain to the bottom line. He told me that whenever they've tried to tweak their staff travel benefits in a negative direction, it has resulted in a measurable and worrying increase in staff sickness and resignation (particularly amongst the cabin crew).
As Trafalgar has pointed out, this new policy will effectively remove staff travel as a benefit to staff. If you think that's ok (apparently a few of you do based on your comments
), then just let the company proceed without any reaction. If you don't, then I suggest you let them know through your own actions in response. I know what my approach to this will be...
As Trafalgar has pointed out, this new policy will effectively remove staff travel as a benefit to staff. If you think that's ok (apparently a few of you do based on your comments
), then just let the company proceed without any reaction. If you don't, then I suggest you let them know through your own actions in response. I know what my approach to this will be...
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Cathay have a self ticketing staff travel agreement with one world partner British Airways. Two flights every night to LHR, seats available, get treated like a human being. Why bother with Cathay.
