PA's , what to say now??
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PA's , what to say now??
Now that we are no longer worthy of the title "Captain", what do you say on the PA now ??
"Ladies and gentlemen. this is the bloke on the flight deck??"
I really don't see why anyone would say, "This is your Captain speaking" when they have removed the title from Crew direct and staff travel.
I know this may seem a trivial thing but it seems CX wants to take away any possibility of being shown the respect we deserve.............................
"Ladies and gentlemen. this is the bloke on the flight deck??"
I really don't see why anyone would say, "This is your Captain speaking" when they have removed the title from Crew direct and staff travel.
I know this may seem a trivial thing but it seems CX wants to take away any possibility of being shown the respect we deserve.............................
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Change it
I'm still addressed as "captain" in crew direct but I forced the change by going into People CX and stipulating I wanted to be addressed as captain in all internal company communications. Not sure about staff travel though??
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Captain is a job description, not a personal title.
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Captain is a job description, not a personal title.
The general idiocy and self-loathing on display is stupefying.
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Are you guys serieus? I am a captain on my aircraft when on duty. Outside of it I am employee 0012345. At home I am daddy. In the supermarket I'm a customer. And when I am going on holiday, I cringe when the gate staff call me by the very function I do not want to be reminded of for a fortnight!!
Shutterbug, what do you call your superiors then? 'Your eminence'? Do you address your line manager as 'your grace'? They have certainly earned it! And what has the width of the body of your aircraft have to do with it? Is it ok to scrap the title if you adres a Dash 8 captain?
Shutterbug, what do you call your superiors then? 'Your eminence'? Do you address your line manager as 'your grace'? They have certainly earned it! And what has the width of the body of your aircraft have to do with it? Is it ok to scrap the title if you adres a Dash 8 captain?
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I don't think anyone posting in this thread is expecting or wishing to be addressed as Captain when not at work. Most would not care if they were called by their first name by those who knew it. The issue in this thread, PENKO, is the continual devaluation of our job at this airline. All internal memo type documents relating to jumpseats, staff travel, anything to do with WORK has recently had Captain removed and been replaced with Mr or Mrs. In a work environment I absolutely agree than a Captain should be addressed as Captain xyz initially. Maybe at your airline you don't think it has been earned but at this one I can assure you that it has. It is about respect for the position and nothing to do with ego in most cases.
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Airline Captain is listed in Debretts Guide.
He is to be addressed as 'Captain'.
Flight Engineers, First Officers and Second Officers are to be addressed as 'Esquire' abbreviated 'Esq'.
It is a formal Title.
I will scan and post it when I have the time.
He is to be addressed as 'Captain'.
Flight Engineers, First Officers and Second Officers are to be addressed as 'Esquire' abbreviated 'Esq'.
It is a formal Title.
I will scan and post it when I have the time.
Last edited by triplesevencommuter; 21st May 2014 at 16:20. Reason: Spelling
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During office hours I suppose we should always address managers as "General Manager _______" or "Director_____".
I should insist on being referred to as "Senior First Officer flyingbynight" at all times while on duty. - after all I earned the title.
I should insist on being referred to as "Senior First Officer flyingbynight" at all times while on duty. - after all I earned the title.
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I think most of you are missing the point. Only a complete imbecile would expect or want to be addressed as captain outside of the work environment. At work, when appropriate and also in company communications the title should be used as wether in the plane or out of it they are still a captain in that company. Are they a captain when in the sim? How about when an STC is giving a training workshop, are they a captain? I don't expect many of them would like to be called captain Bloggs in these scenarios but it does not change the fact that when at work they are a captain, not only when in the aircraft.
As for the comment about calling the ISM by a title, no I do not think that is appropriate. I have only ever come across first names being used in the crew environment and believe it should be this way. The only time that I have ever called a captain, captain, is on occasion when I have answered the call from the back and passed the drink order as the captain would like a xyz as I have forgotten his name. I also use captain if I have written an email to a colleague I do not know who happens to be a captain.
It should be used when appropriate and common sense should dictate when that is. Within the context of company communications, memos etc it should always be used. Just being polite and respecting the position will dictate when used in person. The changing of these things just shows how the company wish to continue to devalue our job, even in small trivial ways such as this. The guy/girl in charge of the lives of 300 people and US$200,000,000 deserves a tad of respect especially as, unlike most ground based jobs, their career is on the line every time they go to work as well as the lives of everyone who goes with them. The continual lack of respect demonstrated by some employers towards pilots is not going to stop, the bottom line seems to outweigh all else including the ability to season your own meal. It is one more degradation aimed at devaluing our job and it amazes me how some find it comical that it annoys others that the title has been removed from items such as jumpeat requests.
As for the comment about calling the ISM by a title, no I do not think that is appropriate. I have only ever come across first names being used in the crew environment and believe it should be this way. The only time that I have ever called a captain, captain, is on occasion when I have answered the call from the back and passed the drink order as the captain would like a xyz as I have forgotten his name. I also use captain if I have written an email to a colleague I do not know who happens to be a captain.
It should be used when appropriate and common sense should dictate when that is. Within the context of company communications, memos etc it should always be used. Just being polite and respecting the position will dictate when used in person. The changing of these things just shows how the company wish to continue to devalue our job, even in small trivial ways such as this. The guy/girl in charge of the lives of 300 people and US$200,000,000 deserves a tad of respect especially as, unlike most ground based jobs, their career is on the line every time they go to work as well as the lives of everyone who goes with them. The continual lack of respect demonstrated by some employers towards pilots is not going to stop, the bottom line seems to outweigh all else including the ability to season your own meal. It is one more degradation aimed at devaluing our job and it amazes me how some find it comical that it annoys others that the title has been removed from items such as jumpeat requests.
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Still waiting for this to happen:
"Airline XXX this is Joe Smith, I will be your Air Traffic Controller for this vectoring for ILS APCH RWY10, the weather today is fine with....."
Than after you're established:
"Airline XXX how do you rate this vectoring for the final?" "Contact TWR, it's been a pleasure "flying with you", hope you'll choose us next time for your vectoring."
What's the history behind "captain" on an aircraft? I fly a Piper in my sparetime, am I a "captain"? As far as I'm aware most CAA's refer to "Pilot in command", not "captain".
"Airline XXX this is Joe Smith, I will be your Air Traffic Controller for this vectoring for ILS APCH RWY10, the weather today is fine with....."
Than after you're established:
"Airline XXX how do you rate this vectoring for the final?" "Contact TWR, it's been a pleasure "flying with you", hope you'll choose us next time for your vectoring."
What's the history behind "captain" on an aircraft? I fly a Piper in my sparetime, am I a "captain"? As far as I'm aware most CAA's refer to "Pilot in command", not "captain".
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Why is anyone given a rank or title? Why is an army officer an officer? Why is a police officer an officer? I think first officer makes sense, as does second officer. Why should a military officer be addressed at work in a specific way? To me it shows a chain of command as it does in an airline. It's not that much different as far as the running of things go. The captain is ultimately responsible for the crew, passengers and aircraft is he not? If things get tricky who ultimately decides on everyones fate?
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The outfit I retired from uses F/O or Captain on all "retired company travel" documents as this tells the operating crew that there is someone in the back who might be of help should things go pear shaped, remember Kansas City?
Well said Sloppy. Your post #14 is spot on. Those who denigrate the thrill of getting a first Command on a big jet (no - not on a bl**dy PA28!) either haven't done it or should get another job. It's a big deal - always has been and always should be. Apart from anything else, the Captain has legal powers on board so nobody should be in any doubt as to his identity - and that includes all those Managers intent on disrespect.
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I guess they need to amend part A to:
"Bloggs, you must listen!"
"I need to speak to Bloggs urgently!"
Sort of reminds me of my junior school days when we had a new principal take charge of our school - one of the first things he did was abandon athletics and replace it with team games that had us running around in circles tossing balls to each other in a non-competitive manner, so there would be no winners and no losers. The experiment was a dismal failure.
Our society is doomed...
"Bloggs, you must listen!"
"I need to speak to Bloggs urgently!"
Sort of reminds me of my junior school days when we had a new principal take charge of our school - one of the first things he did was abandon athletics and replace it with team games that had us running around in circles tossing balls to each other in a non-competitive manner, so there would be no winners and no losers. The experiment was a dismal failure.
Our society is doomed...
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So if Cn/fo/so are no good as a chain of command descriptors, should we a take a lead from the rest of the company.
Cn- Director aircraft
Fo- General Manager aircraft
So- Manager aircraft
Ism- well, as usual, they're one step ahead already
Cn- Director aircraft
Fo- General Manager aircraft
So- Manager aircraft
Ism- well, as usual, they're one step ahead already
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I agree with Arfur, who agrees with Sloppy.
It comes down to responsibility for people's lives and a significant amount of materiel.
That responsibility should not be brushed under the carpet, especially by someone who has no more responsibility (and accountability) than checking and responding to their emails at work.
How many times do we whinge about no one losing their jobs or fronting a court to account for massive losses or fines?
99.9% of the time I'm happy to run a relaxed flight deck on a first-name basis. But if and when the need to exercise my legal responsibilities arises, the salutation of "Captain" should inform people of the position I hold and it's rights, not least of which lies in the Tokyo Convention.
It comes down to responsibility for people's lives and a significant amount of materiel.
That responsibility should not be brushed under the carpet, especially by someone who has no more responsibility (and accountability) than checking and responding to their emails at work.
How many times do we whinge about no one losing their jobs or fronting a court to account for massive losses or fines?
99.9% of the time I'm happy to run a relaxed flight deck on a first-name basis. But if and when the need to exercise my legal responsibilities arises, the salutation of "Captain" should inform people of the position I hold and it's rights, not least of which lies in the Tokyo Convention.