Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Fragrant Harbour
Reload this Page >

QF redundancies and CX.

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

QF redundancies and CX.

Old 17th May 2014, 12:39
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,163
What are you smoking?
nitpicker330 is offline  
Old 17th May 2014, 14:33
  #22 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Smogsville
Posts: 1,428
Bob it's a voluntary redundancy, what makes you think these guys will voluntarily leave, it's not like they need the money. What's the point of quitting if you already sit at home on the yacht as you say? It's the involuntary that CX will dangle a correct for.
SMOC is offline  
Old 17th May 2014, 14:37
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 183
Damn autocarrot!!
744drv is offline  
Old 17th May 2014, 16:56
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Nirvana
Posts: 473
Smoc, QF is not completely shutting down. There are still jobs there and will be for some time to come. Redundancies are for the redundant - in QF that's a lot different from what union and management would like us to believe. Like I said, it's not a bonanza for CX. IF you think so your playing into their game. Read the book. Sure low hour guys are abundant, experience is not. Are they coming? Me thinks not. It's really not an issue unless you allow it to be.
Bob Hawke is offline  
Old 17th May 2014, 19:01
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 44
330/340 was flown by the same FO's, seeing how airbus works 350's should work the same way so 330 pilots will probably fly the 350's
Clish is offline  
Old 18th May 2014, 05:00
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 227
Not for at least a year. The 350 will initially be a separate fleet until some sort of mixed fleet flying starts to take place.

The ex 330/340 guys will have a shorter 350 conversion course compared to the ex Boeing guys.

But the spare crew from mid 2015 are most likely to be on the Jumbo. So my guess is that the 350 will initially be crewed by a handful of trainers. This will be followed by a mix of line guys from fleets "A" and "B".
jonathon68 is offline  
Old 18th May 2014, 06:12
  #27 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Smogsville
Posts: 1,428
Bob all I'm trying to point out is CX is short of S/Os so much so they've re opened the 5 week get em in the door course. Any junior QF guys that think they're on the chopping board may think it's better to jump ship and be first in to CX, even if it's only 30 guys that's 30 perfectly qualified guys they would normally never get. CX is looking for over 200.
SMOC is offline  
Old 18th May 2014, 07:30
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,163
Well I'd personally welcome any Pilots from QF as long as they joined in seniority order as Second officers based in HK, which of course they would have to as things stand today.


Then later on "if" CX open up Aussie bases AND they cannot get enough HK based guys to take a F/O base then I'd have no problem QF Pilots joining as DEFO's either to fill the vacant slots.


What's the problem?
nitpicker330 is offline  
Old 18th May 2014, 08:05
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Asia
Posts: 518
Np330...agreed but none of my QF mates would join CX in HKG under the current conditions...
AQIS Boigu is offline  
Old 18th May 2014, 10:12
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Earth
Posts: 71
DEFOs would be the problem!!
clear.right is offline  
Old 18th May 2014, 12:39
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,163
So, CX finally re open bases ( dreaming I know ) only a handful of HK eligible crew apply and they then offer the FO empty slots to DEFO's.....

What's the beef with that?

I imagine considering all the pent up demand for a Aussie base that "if" Cx were to open the base there would be more than enough FO's in HK to fill the base without recruiting from outside. We'd only be talking 20 or 30 numbers anyway.
nitpicker330 is offline  
Old 18th May 2014, 13:15
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Earth
Posts: 71
S
E
N
I
O
R
I
T
Y

Definition : Seniority (from Latin "senex", old man) is the concept of a person or group of people being older or in charge or command of another person or group, or taking precedence over them. Seniority is present in the most common relationships, between parents and children, siblings of different ages, and workers and their managers. See Classic of Filial Piety.

Control is often granted to senior persons due to experience or length of service in a given position. When persons of senior rank have less experience or length of service than their subordinates, "seniority" may apply to either concept. "Seniority" also sometimes refers to the knowledge or skill that one obtains with long experience.

A DEFO is the exact opposite of said "seniority"

So, yes Nitwit, DEFOs are a problem!
clear.right is offline  
Old 18th May 2014, 14:12
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: All Over
Posts: 471
A few DECs and DEFOs but that will be about it.

You think, given our contract issues and the lack of resolution (or even bona-fide negotiation on the part of the company) that someone would bolt looking for something long-term here ?!!!???!! Stamp duty, compensation well lagging inflation, cost of living, punitive scheduling, etc. ? Not to mention the legal quagmire of hiring DECs and DEFOs again.

There are other arenas (if one can suck up living in the middle east or China) with far more $$$ to be made as a bridge for something long term with promise.
Shep69 is offline  
Old 18th May 2014, 15:19
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Earth
Posts: 71
Just a few then....
Come one, come all, we take all laid off and newly unemployed pilots! Bonus, you are lucky, you can still hold your old seat!
DEFOs and now DECs, why not!


It's called a seniority list, where the new hires go to the bottom of the list, and then wait for the next available promotion.

It would be great to have some highly experienced S/O's, and I am sure they would be a quick upgrade in 3-4 years time when their seniority number allowed them to hold a right seat.

I sympathise for the people facing these problems at Qantas, but find it quite astounding that people would suggest we hire them as anything more than an S/O.
clear.right is offline  
Old 18th May 2014, 15:49
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: All Over
Posts: 471
I didn't suggest this at all--quite the opposite--in fact I hope contractually it will be prevented. But that's not going to be any of our call.

Just if previous experience predicts the future it is likely the company may well try it; or try to find a way. My opinion or prediction doesn't matter in what they might do and I see this as a realistic tactic which would open up a quagmire for everyone. Not sure I'd want to hire on in that position and that largely was the point of the post. I really can't see a windfall of people biting at it knowing what is going on--as such I don't really see the QF issue being anything of consequence to worry about.
Shep69 is offline  
Old 20th May 2014, 07:30
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,163
clear.right

I've been a strong supporter of seniority for all of my career.

So you think a new joiner S/O should be given the right to take a basing as an FO even if he doesn't have enough experience to upgrade to FO?

Aren't there experience minimums to upgrade to FO?

All i was saying is that "if" none of the current eligible HK based crew bid for a basing then it should be opened to DEFO's BUT only if basings open up again.
nitpicker330 is offline  
Old 20th May 2014, 08:05
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Earth
Posts: 71
Yes, a 3 year, or 1 year "new joiner" S/O should get the base before any outside hires.

Experience - Not our problem. CX hired them, and will train them in our well respected training machine.

If no eligible crew bid, the the spot should remain vacant until the next most senior person elects to bid for the base at a time of his choosing.
If the base remains vacant, that means the pay for the base is insufficient and should be increased to an amount that will attract someone to fill that position.

At no point should DEFOs or DECs ever be hired onto a base.

To hire any direct entry pilot undermines seniority, and the terms and conditions for the current, and future employees on said base.
clear.right is offline  
Old 20th May 2014, 09:55
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,163
Oh well I'm afraid that horse has already bolted, the precedent has already been set.
nitpicker330 is offline  
Old 20th May 2014, 13:57
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Earth
Posts: 71
So I suppose we might as well accept it, and welcome all with open arms?
clear.right is offline  
Old 20th May 2014, 15:59
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Cesspit
Posts: 317
Clear.right,

Read your contract about the 3 pathways to join CX.
And don't think the requirement of having no suitable SO to upgrade prior to hiring a DEFO will slow them down. We fought that one thru the courts and lost.

Cx have been hiring DEFO's for nearly 70 years. Can't see a reason for them stopping now. I'd guess only half of CX captains joined as SO's. The rest joined as DEFO's/Rapid commands over the top of SO's.

I believe now days SO's get a seniority number. Be grateful for that win at least.
Progress Wanchai is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.